Components, Coaxials & Horns Discussion related to the midwoofers, tweeters and horns.

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Old 11-13-2006   #1 (permalink)
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Default Tweeter Placement


Hey all -

I'm getting ready to get the CDT FG Components, and am trying to figure out where to mount the tweeters.

Car: 1998 GMC Jimmy

I'm hoping that it will be okay to mount them in the current 4x6" Speaker spot on the dash, but it may be necessary to put them in this other area, which would be a huge pain.

Note: If you're confused, I'm going to make a custom plate fitting to put the tweeters in the 4x6" spot.

Question: Will it work (as it should) to put the tweeters where the current 4x6" speakers are?

Here are pictures.

Current 4x6" mounting place:




Would it be alright to place them in the 4x6" spot, or do I need to custom mount them in the other circled area?
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Old 11-13-2006   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

i have 6 tweeters: 2mounted on each A,B, and C pillar............they sound pretty good
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Old 11-13-2006   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

im not sure about on your jimmy but my blazer had stock tweeters mounted in the dash in a metal plate so you shouldnt even have to make a peice for them to fit.
the stock ones didnt sond too bad either so those CDT's should sound real nice
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Old 11-13-2006   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

wire them up. sit in your drivers seat and move the tweeter around with the volume at your normal listening lvls, see what sounds the best.
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Old 11-13-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

well i have heard the best place is at the bottom corners of the pillars and to aim them across to the opposite seat.. if u want to get technical u can use a laser pointer and aim them that way ....
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Old 11-13-2006   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

The blazers have the Speaker up in the dash but the Jimmy's only had this as an option.
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Old 11-13-2006   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Yeah, i figured the absolute best place would be in the pillars, but if possible, it'd save a lot of interior modifications to put them in the stock 4x6" location.

I guess what I really want to know is whether or not there will be an extremely noticeable difference in sound quality between the stock 4x6" space and the pillars.

And @PFT - You sure you're not mistaking tweeters (1" circular). If you can see the spot on the dash, where the grill is, there are 4x6" 3-way speakers there. And there were stock 4x6" speakers, as well.

and @XBlazer -- I'm not sure if the speakers in the dash were an option, but if they were, I got 'em because it's fully loaded. There were stock 4x6" in the dash.. But I'm wondering if Tweeters in the same place will perform to full (or close-to-full) potential.
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Old 11-13-2006   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

For the Best sound stage keep them around ear level and for proper time alinement keep them within a foot of the other drivers runnin on the same channel or crossover.
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Old 11-13-2006   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

So you're saying that the best soundstage would occur placing them towards the bottom of the door panel near the midranges?

I'm not sure I've heard that before. (not saying you're wrong-- I know nothing about tweeter placement).

Wouldn't that suggest that Coaxials have better sound stage than components?
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Old 11-13-2006   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by roxbury
So you're saying that the best soundstage would occur placing them towards the bottom of the door panel near the midranges?

I'm not sure I've heard that before. (not saying you're wrong-- I know nothing about tweeter placement).

Wouldn't that suggest that Coaxials have better sound stage than components?
Uhh no Mybe if your ears are in your anckles and your heads in your ass.
^^^^^^^^^^^this is how the Factory Builders do it Go Figure^^^^^^^^^^
No you put the tweeters as high as possible( when its the door ) but close enought to keep a proper time alinement ( within a foot of the other speaker )
In this case the speakers are in the dash so you can put the tweeter in the pillar and be fine.
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Old 11-13-2006   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

I think some people are confused.


The component set consists of 2 midbass drivers and 2 tweeters (and x-overs).

The midrange drivers are going in the doors, in the stock 6.5" mounting location. I'm wondering if I can then put the tweeters where the current 4x6" speakers are.

The speakers (midrange) aren't going in the dash.


This is where the midbass drivers are going (bottom of door)
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Old 11-13-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

if your goal is building a soundstage worthy of SQ you should put the tweeters down in the kickpanel since this will minimized the difference in the distance to the listener. Refrain from mounting them where the factory plates were since the reflection off of the windshield will color the response making them sound overly harsh. You will have to adjust the mounting angle so that the tweeters are playing up into the listening area.
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Old 11-13-2006   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

So you're saying I should put them down by where the mid-range woofers are going? Or futher up on the door near the door-handle? If they're down near my feet, wouldn't they be less.. direct? Because the shorter soundwave won't travel like lower frequencies where they can go all over?

Either way, is it going to require cutting the door-panel?

And as for adjusting the mounting angle, are you referring to them going in the 4x6" spot, adjusting them so they're not aimed at the windshield? Or are you referring to putting them in the kick/door panels?

Thanks for the help.. the post was helpful.
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Old 11-13-2006   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger
wire them up. sit in your drivers seat and move the tweeter around with the volume at your normal listening lvls, see what sounds the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -12+VoLt=ShOcKeR
For the Best sound stage keep them around ear level and for proper time alinement keep them within a foot of the other drivers runnin on the same channel or crossover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -12+VoLt=ShOcKeR
Uhh no Mybe if your ears are in your anckles and your heads in your ass.
^^^^^^^^^^^this is how the Factory Builders do it Go Figure^^^^^^^^^^
No you put the tweeters as high as possible( when its the door ) but close enought to keep a proper time alinement ( within a foot of the other speaker )
In this case the speakers are in the dash so you can put the tweeter in the pillar and be fine.

I will agree with both of these gentlemen…
my 2 cents is that it is not necessary to have them exactly within a foot…
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It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.

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Old 11-13-2006   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Alright.. Well what I think I'm going to need to do is stop by a junkyard and see what I can come across as far as door panels/pillars go, because so far it sounds like the stock 4x6" spot isn't an option.

The car didn't come stock with components, so if I'm ever selling it, I don't want to modify anything I can't undo (with exception of deadening/minor details)

So would the best place be either at the bottom of one of the pillars or at the top of the door panel near the window?
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Old 11-14-2006   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

I think best place is where it shows in the picture
this is for good sound image:



but you can either put in in the stok place or near the kick panel and listen to the music and decide like this pic:

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Old 11-14-2006   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Fig 2 would be most recommended for proper tweeter placement and if you aim them properly your soundstage will be high and centered. This is not a new concept, this is what the Q-forms were designed around. Every training I have ever attended Alpine, Eclipse, JL, and not too mention Oz Audio (Only company to score *perfect* in SQ competition)has confirmed this as the best placement for performance. As for distance from the woofer this largely depends on crossover frequency. Tweeter distance should be 1/2 a wavelenght or equal to 2 wavelengths of the crossover frequency. For my components these distances were 3.25" or 15".

I don't think its fair to say that Chris Yato and Steve Brown listen to through their ankles or have their heads up their highly respected asses. If you don't understand the science behind placement please keep you comments to yourself so that those who are legitimately eager to learn can do so without distraction.
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Old 11-14-2006   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Yep i wanted my tweets as close as possible to my mids that i decided to go with a good coax instead.

Sounds better than a lot of component systems i've heard


(am not the biggest fan of having the tweets high up and so far away from the mids. just doesnt sound natural to me)
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Old 11-14-2006   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

With my component setup i basicly did a figure 1 and figure 4.
my home setup
I was planning on mounting the tweets in my pillars but the way they curve would have placed the tweeter to close to my head and would be quite over powering.

How ever in the rear stage the components were able to be wired coaxily while still letting me take the 2nd tweeter and mout it in the stock dash tweeter location.
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Old 11-14-2006   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Prometheus, what would you recommend to set for the crossover frequency?

They are going to be powered by a Hifonics ZXI 6006 (150w x 2). The rest of my system is be (2) Eclipse SE8365 6.5" in the back, and an Alpine R 12".

I plan on taking the 4x6" speakers out of the dash, and only having the components up front. (pioneer at the moment).

Also, this site: http://www.cdtaudio.com/speaker_placement.htm recommends angling the woofers upward. Is that worth building a custom speaker mount to make happen?
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Old 11-14-2006   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
I don't think its fair to say that Chris Yato and Steve Brown listen to through their ankles or have their heads up their highly respected asses. If you don't understand the science behind placement please keep you comments to yourself so that those who are legitimately eager to learn can do so without distraction.

No just a joke aimed at the FACTORY placement of speakers, not at anyone
that knows better, This is okay down low for a COMPONENT, as long as the tweeter is aimed high but in Most cars they have a COAX thats aimed at the
ankles. Ohh and I know plenty about the sience of car audio, you just mis understood my joke.
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Old 11-14-2006   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

I used to have my tweeters right next to my mids in the stock door location and then moved the tweeter up near the A-pillar. CDT told me to put them back. heh. I figured I'd split the difference and put the main tweeter back where it was and put an image tweeter up near the A-pillar.
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Old 11-14-2006   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixxer
I used to have my tweeters right next to my mids in the stock door location and then moved the tweeter up near the A-pillar. CDT told me to put them back. heh. I figured I'd split the difference and put the main tweeter back where it was and put an image tweeter up near the A-pillar.
Hahah. Fair enough.

And yeah - I think i'll have to build something to put the tweeter near the woofer.

By the way --- Which two speakers am I getting? And which am I missing? Am I getting a woofer and an image tweeter? Or a main tweeter? Basically, should I look into eventually adding another tweeter for imaging, or does the FG set cover all frequencies well?
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Old 11-14-2006   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by -12+VoLt=ShOcKeR
No just a joke aimed at the FACTORY placement of speakers, not at anyone
that knows better, This is okay down low for a COMPONENT, as long as the tweeter is aimed high but in Most cars they have a COAX thats aimed at the
ankles. Ohh and I know plenty about the sience of car audio, you just mis understood my joke.
My mistake , I do see your point from the engineering standpoint of the factory engineers. But they are centered around cost and ease of placement VS what is necessary for good stereo. Thank you for the clarifying that.

As for the crossover point that is normally decided by the passive crossover network that is included with your components, this specification is derived from the frequency response of the two drivers, slope, and the amount of overlap they need for flattest response. The tweeter x-over point is 1800Hz on my components. Traditionally a tweeter will be x-over'd anywhere from 1500Hz (oversized tweeters) up to 3000Hz. This information should be in your manual. This is the freq that you will base your placement on.

Now if you are asking what the x-over setting on the amplifier should be this depends on how low your system can play cleanly under amplifier power and whether or not you have a subwoofer to augment the bottom end on the stereo system. A decent system can be crossed over as low as 75Hz, high end systems can be filtered as low as 40Hz or require no additional filtering at all. Lesser systems must be filtered as high 150Hz to protect them from overdriving. So the short answer is trial and error, unless you can give me an idea of the freq response of the different portions of your audio system. Good luck in your install
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Old 11-14-2006   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tweeter Placement

I have a Type R 12" -- Frequency Response 25-500Hz (source: crutchfield). Crossover can be changed to whatever recommended.. Powered by Bazooka EL 1500.

For the back speakers, I have Eclipse SE8365 6.5" 3-way coaxials in stock speaker locations. They're wired to the head unit (no amp). Frequency responce 90Hz ~ 40kHz ±3dB (source: woofersetc.)

And that will be all once I get the new components. The components will replace the second set of Eclipses in the front doors, and I plan on taking out the Pioneer 4x6"s in the dash.

Note: Do you also agree that I should take the 4x6"s out of the dash?
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