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-   -   Knu Wire or this Welding cable (https://forum.realmofexcursion.com/accessories-electrical/76986-knu-wire-welding-cable.html)

KingPen 02-17-2013 10:41 AM

Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
In the past I've always used KnuKoncepts wire but I ran across this today. I need to order around 100ft of cable and when I did the math, well the number speak for themselves.

Welding wire 100ft shipped = 240
Knu wire 100ft shipped = $395

The difference between the wire.
Knu is tinned
Knu is actually larger then 1/0
Knu has over 5000 strands vs 1026 strands (thicker strands) in the welding wire

What would you do and why?

Dr.BeatGood 02-17-2013 11:07 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
I'm curious as well. I'm about to order wire myself.

KingPen 02-17-2013 11:12 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.BeatGood (Post 930242)
I'm curious as well. I'm about to order wire myself.

The more research I do the more I'm leaning on the welding wire side.

From another forum. The stuff looks like it can hold its own for half the price.
Quote:

knukoncepz flex(black), Knukonceptz flex(red), Rockford Fosgate(black), Stinger HPM(clear), welding cable 1/0(black), welding cable 4/0(black)
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/4be9cd3d.jpg

Knukonceptz Flex (red), Rockford Fosgate (black)
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/9787a5bc.jpg

Welding Cable 1/0 left, Rockford Fosgate on right
You can see the RF 1/0 is slightly larger then the welding cable 1/0

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/527a117b.jpg

Slobalt7 02-17-2013 11:14 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
I have welding cable, never got the oppertunity to run it though. it was at 19xx strands for 0g

KingPen 02-17-2013 11:15 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Slobalt7 (Post 930244)
I have welding cable, never got the oppertunity to run it though. it was at 19xx strands for 0g

where did you find that?

KingPen 02-17-2013 11:35 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
old tread link

http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/no...ldin-wire.html

Dr.BeatGood 02-17-2013 11:53 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
From reading that thread, I'd go with the welding cable.

tjamz 02-17-2013 11:59 AM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
We use welding cable regularly, even though we have to pay retail for it a lot of times it is still less expensive than what I can buy through my vendors.

Beckerson1 02-17-2013 12:14 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
I really enjoy my welding wire.

Personally KingPen if you can get the WW cheaper go ahead and do it. It may not be tinned which has its advantages, As I am getting some corrosion on mine up front (exposed will get that fixed when I get my new distro/buss bar battery setup).

There's a reason they rate it for welding applications. Plus IIRC it has to pass certain tests say non welding wire doesn't.

97_eldo 02-17-2013 12:45 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
u quickly ended your own debate.....lol
i would go with welding wire because i always thought standards would likely make it better. never done any research but there seems to be enough info to think that is correct.
it's look or function, i think that most of the better audio cables would perform well in most situations so most would approach it for the look. competitors may need the function to pull of them extra points.
interesting read tho, thanx.

southerntrendkill 02-17-2013 12:58 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
i always thought that the huge strand count was just to make it more flexable.

KingPen 02-17-2013 02:17 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
ok guys, so how about this stuff

SGX XLPE 1/0 BLACK

supposed to be 19x66/30 = 1254 strands of 30ga for $2.10 a foot. After shipping its $127.39 for a 50ft roll. Thats only $7.39 more than the 1026 strand welding wire. .

Burkem_10 02-17-2013 02:30 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by southerntrendkill (Post 930258)
i always thought that the huge strand count was just to make it more flexable.

Electrons flow on the exterior of the wire IIRC and a higher strand count allows for more surface area for it to flow. It also helps with flexibility too.

You can get 100' of some nice 1/0 for $270 shipped from weldingsupply.com. I have some of the black stuff and it's good OFC ish. I bought the stuff one day in the afternoon and go it the next day. I wouldn't hesitate to go through them again.

97_eldo 02-17-2013 02:34 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
shoot for the stars and get the 4/0 do about 6 runs of each.
what kind of amperage you are going to be pulling thru it would be a contributing factor.

what ya not goin for that pink stuff:)

that link for the last stuff seems to be a good price although there are no specs that i seen so it's tough to compare. not that i could ever give a solid answer anyways :)

KingPen 02-17-2013 02:35 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Yep I looked at them but there priced a little higher for what looks to be the same stuff.

Darkmage1991 02-17-2013 03:04 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burkem_10 (Post 930264)
Electrons flow on the exterior of the wire IIRC and a higher strand count allows for more surface area for it to flow. It also helps with flexibility too.

You can get 100' of some nice 1/0 for $270 shipped from weldingsupply.com. I have some of the black stuff and it's good OFC ish. I bought the stuff one day in the afternoon and go it the next day. I wouldn't hesitate to go through them again.

that is called the skin effect, and for what we use it for doesnt apply. we are not pulling a bunch of current at ridiculously high frequencies. at which skin affect starts taking affect.

profundus-sanus 02-17-2013 04:00 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmage1991 (Post 930267)
that is called the skin effect, and for what we use it for doesnt apply. we are not pulling a bunch of current at ridiculously high frequencies. at which skin affect starts taking affect.

yup.

skin effect only applies to higher frequency ac. it doesn't apply to dc at all.

southerntrendkill 02-17-2013 04:02 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by profundus-sanus (Post 930271)
yup.

skin effect only applies to higher frequency ac. it doesn't apply to dc at all.

so was i right just makes it flexable?

profundus-sanus 02-17-2013 04:17 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
tinned wire will last MUCH longer than bare copper wire like welding wire(edit: when exposed). also knu wire is at least 25% bigger than true 1/0 welding wire.

http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/ac...ire-guide.html

if you go in there you see that knu is around 27-28% larger than flexaprene welding wire. which that p uts you paying around 90$ for the tinning from knu... meh

i'm a cca man myself though. copper is overpriced and aluminum is good for 75% as much current as copper at 50% or less of the price(edit: within the same brand)

which with the knu wire being 27% larger(even for kca) than welding wire but copper carrying only 25% more current per size that means the kca would carry 2% more current, which isn't counting its 10% copper content.

BUT 100ft of kca is 192 shipped vs 240 shipped of the welding wire.... which makes the welding wire 25% more expensive

its up to you, tons of people just say ew, aluminum... because its not cool. You just have to realize its restrictions. And make sure to get good shrink wrap with the adhesive in it on your ends. i've seen too much wire nasty corroded to not shrink wrap the ends.

KingPen 02-17-2013 04:17 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by profundus-sanus (Post 930271)
yup.

skin effect only applies to higher frequency ac. it doesn't apply to dc at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerntrendkill (Post 930272)
so was i right just makes it flexable?

I was basically reading the same thing. AC only and only in high voltage applications.

profundus-sanus 02-17-2013 04:19 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by southerntrendkill (Post 930272)
so was i right just makes it flexable?

yes. generally higher strand count means more flexible. it has nothing to do with size as lots of companies vary between eachother on strand size.

armykyle1 02-17-2013 04:48 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
with such a low strand count, you're going to hate that welding lead. I've used it before, and it's crap. It makes for clamping into the amp terminals a bitch(low compression) you'll get much better surface contact with the higher strand count.

As pro already stated, silver tinned wire will last much longer and also has a slight edge in conductivity. I agree with the CCA thing as well. Only issue is, it will still corrode fast, possibly faster than regular OFC. Any runs that might get exposed to the elements, I will always suggest silver tinned or any runs you might handle a lot. The oils in your skin with corrode wire and start to turn it black. I've seen and done this myself and it only takes a month or so.

KingPen 02-17-2013 05:12 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by profundus-sanus (Post 930273)
tinned wire will last MUCH longer than bare copper wire like welding wire(edit: when exposed). also knu wire is at least 25% bigger than true 1/0 welding wire.

http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/ac...ire-guide.html

if you go in there you see that knu is around 27-28% larger than flexaprene welding wire. which that p uts you paying around 90$ for the tinning from knu... meh

i'm a cca man myself though. copper is overpriced and aluminum is good for 75% as much current as copper at 50% or less of the price(edit: within the same brand)

which with the knu wire being 27% larger(even for kca) than welding wire but copper carrying only 25% more current per size that means the kca would carry 2% more current, which isn't counting its 10% copper content.

BUT 100ft of kca is 192 shipped vs 240 shipped of the welding wire.... which makes the welding wire 25% more expensive

its up to you, tons of people just say ew, aluminum... because its not cool. You just have to realize its restrictions. And make sure to get good shrink wrap with the adhesive in it on your ends. i've seen too much wire nasty corroded to not shrink wrap the ends.

Hmm, I could see how tinned might have an advantage but I don't see any of my wire being exposed to the elements. I use tinned terminals and solder then on then shrinkwrap them. Little if any water would have a chance getting in.

I checked out the difference between the size of the welding wire and the knu. Looks to me like its around 20% give or take. That would make the knu around $3.16 a foot compared to the $2.40 a foot of the same size welding wire. So price difference is still there but is not extreme. The knu is more of a 2/0 cable from the looks of it.

As far as the CCA. I don't believe in using it because it tends to wast energy in the form of heat generation. Its ok for some I guess but I have over 10k watts on tap (soon to be 20k) and don't think cca really has a place in my car.

I did run across one advantage to the Knu alternative. The one I was looking at uses a sgx cover which adds additional abrasion and heat resistance over the knu pvc. My runs are under the car so that's a big + for me.

KingPen 02-17-2013 05:13 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by armykyle1 (Post 930276)
with such a low strand count, you're going to hate that welding lead. I've used it before, and it's crap. It makes for clamping into the amp terminals a bitch(low compression) you'll get much better surface contact with the higher strand count.

As pro already stated, silver tinned wire will last much longer and also has a slight edge in conductivity. I agree with the CCA thing as well. Only issue is, it will still corrode fast, possibly faster than regular OFC. Any runs that might get exposed to the elements, I will always suggest silver tinned or any runs you might handle a lot. The oils in your skin with corrode wire and start to turn it black. I've seen and done this myself and it only takes a month or so.

With this in mind I may use the knu in the back for the connections between my bus bars and the amps and use the welding wire for the runs.

armykyle1 02-17-2013 05:15 PM

Re: Knu Wire or this Welding cable
 
two runs of CCA will carry more current than one run of ofc and still come out cheaper.


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