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Old 05-09-2012   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
looks good.
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Old 05-09-2012   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by armykyle1 View Post
looks good.
Thanks
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Old 05-31-2012   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
I've been borrowing a friends amp to Power my sub (older Hifonics 300W) and today came a Hifonics BRZ1200.1D... The plan is to tune the amp to 500W RMS, of course paying a lot of attention to the sub, excursion and thermal dissipation as well... Then using the remote to tone down to 400W RMS for DD and the extra 100W RMS for some extra thump at metering/comps and whatnot basically blurp... The setup isn't SPL so I'm not looking at insane numbers but my friend believes we can get 125 db... Hopefully in a few weeks we can find time to take her up to the Car show in Medina to get metered and to talk with some fellow audio enthusiasts and of course take a lot of pictures cause from what i hear there are a lot of cool cars there as well...

Specs:

Hifonics Brutus BRZ1200.1D, BRZ 1200.1D Class D Car Amplifier/Amp

LOL!!! I paid $146(amazon, sonic offered for 150)... jumped to $229, ordered just in time I guess
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Old 05-31-2012   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Your not even going to notice the difference between 400 and 500wrms. Putting 800 to it will definitely make a difference but a 25% gain is barely going to be audible.

And your front stage should do near 125db, I'd expect 135 from that sub in your car or you've done something wrong.
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Old 05-31-2012   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
agreed. i had 2 8s on 600 rms that was in the 30s. i say 132 for the e on 500 and i bet you could throw most of that power to if for short burbs no problem.
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Old 05-31-2012   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49konvict View Post
agreed. i had 2 8s on 600 rms that was in the 30s. i say 132 for the e on 500 and i bet you could throw most of that power to if for short burbs no problem.
Even though its sealed... I mean if I can burp it with more I will but don't want to over push it at first
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Old 05-31-2012   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
i bet it will take over double rated in the right box. talk to pro. he has da sundown knowledge
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Old 05-31-2012   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
It depends a lot on the peak to average ratio of the music you listen to. If it's constant heavy bass, the sub probably wont take much more than rated. But if it's just brief bursts of bass, it'll probably handle well over the thermal rating (mechanical depends a lot on the box)



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Old 06-01-2012   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Alright got the amp installed and sounds good... Still running at 14.3V full tilt so am very happy with that... the sub handles the 500 well with no issues with it thermally, really its quite cool after some strung out lower bass notes... read on it might be seeing less... Got the bass knob installed in the left hand pocket and looks great... will post pics in the evening tomorrow as I work all day...

I do have a question regarding tuning the amp. Right now we have it tuned at 2 ohms but when accounting for wiring and what not the sub/amp actually sees 2.7 ohms (tested and shown by DMM same result on front stage .7 ohm difference). Should we tune it to 2.7 ohms (instead of 31V at 2 ohms, we should have it at 36V)? This is the only unclear thing with the tuning for me... So really the sub is actually probably seeing 350-400W at full tilt instead of 500W at current tune...

I did look at the thread about tuning the amp but don't remember if this was touched upon...
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Old 06-01-2012   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Yes, set it to 36v. You are right in thinking the sub will be getting less than 500wrms.
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Old 06-01-2012   #111 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
I thought I read somewhere that the resting impedance of the sub does not have an effect on setting the gain. It is wired to 2 ohms nominal and right now is resting at 2.7 ohms. So the proper way to set the gain would be to set for 2.7 ohms instead of the 2 ohms nominal?
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Old 06-01-2012   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by 98Civic View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the resting impedance of the sub does not have an effect on setting the gain. It is wired to 2 ohms nominal and right now is resting at 2.7 ohms. So the proper way to set the gain would be to set for 2.7 ohms instead of the 2 ohms nominal?
I mean it makes sense to set at 2.7 ohms... resistance is resistance

its how I have my front stage set up... 4.7 ohms, well did... tuned it down because they were insanely loud
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Old 06-01-2012   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Well the impedance of the sub is constantly changing with each frequency. Its not going to be 2.7 ohms the entire time
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Old 06-01-2012   #114 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Civic View Post
Well the impedance of the sub is constantly changing with each frequency. Its not going to be 2.7 ohms the entire time
that's just like setting it a 2 ohms, its not 2 ohms all the time...

but to account for the wiring (get the same .7 ohm reading on my front stage as well) so this leads me to believe the wiring is giving me that .7 ohm reading all around... and whatever other factors may be present... I mean I could be wrong but it just makes sense to set it with the 2.7 instead of 2
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Old 06-01-2012   #115 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Actually think I found the answer:


Quote:
Originally Posted by cxa0897 View Post
i was reading through this thread the other day and im pretty sure i got it figured out. there definitely. needs to be a dummy load placed across the terminals. heres why:



this is simplified circuit representation of the amplifier and the subwoofer load. its known as a thevenin equivalent. it is used to analyze one component in a complex circuit. lets assume Vamp is the power created by the amp at its source. Rint is the net resistance inside the amplifier thst is responsible for losses. Rl is going to be the resistance of the load, a subwoofer in our example. the area inside the dashedbox is beyond our control. its representative of the internal wiring ans components. you can treat the dashed box as the amp case if it helps the visual. the terminals at Vo plus/minus would be the speaker terminals sticking out of the amp

now, when a manufacturer gives us a power rating, its not the internal power produced. its the power across the load(a sub on our case). therefore we want to look for the power across Rl, or across the two terminals shown as Vo. when you stick a dmm across the speaker terminals on the amp, you are essentially placing the dmm on the plus and minus terminal of Vo in this image. if we have no resistor, Rl is equal to zero., and it can be removed from the circuit. so, what are we actually measuring? nothing even close to what we are looking for. in order to get the accurate results, we have to measure the voltage with a resistance equal to the resistance we are running. hopefully this makes sense. im fairly confident that this is he cause of the many strange results that people were getting. if any more elaboration is needed, let me know, i know this is bit heavy in theory....
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Old 06-01-2012   #116 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
hence why I always gainset with the sub hooked up.
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Old 06-01-2012   #117 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by SINTORMAN View Post
hence why I always gainset with the sub hooked up.
Now this was tuned with the sub hooked up... I guess all I'm asking is by what he means by "resistance equal to resistance running"? Does that mean the 2 ohms nominal or does that account for resting 2.7 ohms in my case?
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Old 06-02-2012   #118 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
bump ^^^^^^^^

A yes from 666WMD, need more confirmations
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Old 06-02-2012   #119 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by Beckerson1 View Post
bump ^^^^^^^^

A yes from 666WMD, need more confirmations
TLR confirm what?
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Old 06-02-2012   #120 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by SINTORMAN View Post
TLR confirm what?
To long Hugh


Here is what the last ? was

Now this was tuned with the sub hooked up... I guess all I'm asking is by what he means by "resistance equal to resistance running"? Does that mean the 2 ohms nominal or does that account for resting 2.7 ohms in my case?


I've talked with someone about it and it seems for my application it doesn't truly matter which one I use so I will probably stick with the nominal and will probably up the RMS to 600 as at 500 the sub doesn't seem to be phased by running at 500W for an extended period of time... (More or less its at the rated 400W RMS anyway even with the remote to max)... Runs very cool, I pushed it pretty hard today with no issues... running a variety of songs, extended bass notes and short


I know that at one point my friend 98 wired the sub bridged on his older amp, no way of confirming what the actual RMS was but something like 600+ (amp was rated at 600 bridged) and we ran that for 7min or so with fairly constant bass.... That's if the amp was capable of doing rated or even more and was dependent on if the signal was clipped or not...

All I know it was flexing the windshield a small amount... much more then what I am at now...

We are going to clamp it and actually see what I'm giving it... I'm just curious what its at...
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Old 06-04-2012   #121 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Set the gain for 2 ohms. Not 2.7.
When you measured 2.7 ohms that's at one frequency.
In reality it varies, at the FS of the drivers it can get up around 50 ohms with some drivers. If you measured it's impedance near it's FS, you might conclude that you should set the gain assuming the impedance is that high all the time. If you want to set it assuming 2.7 ohms that's probably fine, it likely can handle the extra power.

Amplifiers and power ratings always irk me. They just amplify a voltage, they have no idea how much power they are outputting. It would be so much better for them to recommend a voltage @ a nominal impedance. But I digress.

Anyways an image usually helps:


So what are you looking at? Well this would be the amplifier load with the gain set for 1kW. As you can see the acutal power never reaches 1kW. It's highest at tuning. At around 65Hz it's less than 100 watts. If you were measuring the power output of the amp at this frequency you might conclude something is wrong, since it's outputting less than 1/10th the power you set the gain for. It's just because there is an impedance peak there. If anything it's a bonus, the SPL out is pretty decent there for 1/10th the power, the efficiency here is quite high.

Anyways in your situation it'll be different, since it's a different sub, different type of box, and different amount of power.

So just set the gain on the amp for sqrt(500W*2R)=31.6Vrms



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Old 06-04-2012   #122 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
Thanks for clarifying on this Fallen. This is pretty much along the lines of how I was thinking but I couldn't word it properly to make any sense.
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Old 06-22-2012   #123 (permalink)
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davedave is in the red - Must have upset some poeple...
Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by 98Civic View Post
All the wiring for the big 3 and the amp power and ground is 2 awg welding cable. So the 200a fuses would have been fine.
Hey man I built my 07 Si 4 door completely up show and bass. I would def run 0/2 gauge wire because if your serious about doing numbers or even giving amps max power 2 or 4 gauge wire won't cut it. I gutted the back seats and deck and have 3 Digital designs 2512s doing over 150 dbs firing in from the trunk. I def appreciate your enthusiasm being a Honda man myself. Any questions feel free to hit me up.
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Old 06-22-2012   #124 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
Hey man I built my 07 Si 4 door completely up show and bass. I would def run 0/2 gauge wire because if your serious about doing numbers or even giving amps max power 2 or 4 gauge wire won't cut it. I gutted the back seats and deck and have 3 Digital designs 2512s doing over 150 dbs firing in from the trunk. I def appreciate your enthusiasm being a Honda man myself. Any questions feel free to hit me up.
over 150 on 3 2515s you say. You got pics of this setup? And if so make a thread so we aren't derailing his.
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Old 06-22-2012   #125 (permalink)
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Default Re: 06' Si DD SQ build
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
Hey man I built my 07 Si 4 door completely up show and bass. I would def run 0/2 gauge wire because if your serious about doing numbers or even giving amps max power 2 or 4 gauge wire won't cut it. I gutted the back seats and deck and have 3 Digital designs 2512s doing over 150 dbs firing in from the trunk. I def appreciate your enthusiasm being a Honda man myself. Any questions feel free to hit me up.
That would be true if I were running a bunch of power... ATM I'm running under 1K for my whole system... Numbers are great and all but its not my goal for my system... If you read from the beginning I am strictly SQ... So a lot of EQ work and a lot of time spent perfecting it... Unfortunately with a 5 band there are gaps in my tuning... I hate it and am constantly fixing it but I don't have the cash atm to get a 30 band EQ or get the new Pioneer HU that has 16 band independent L/R, auto tune, auto alignment... Will have to see how the reviews are on it... But the next move I will make is getting a Hifonics MX-3 for more sub EQ control as there are certain frequencies that need a boost and some that can back off a tad... If you really want to know my true goal:

I would really like to compete in SQ with the least amount I can... I want to prove that you don't need a ton of everything to get the same effect those with 30+ Speakers get... It's quite ambitious as most those speakers only play a certain amount as a processor usually controls them... All keeping the car a true DD... As it looks like I'm going to use the car as a Summer car at some point as I'm hoping to get with some storm chasers and learn the ropes, gain experience and at some point hope to provide crucial information to hopefully help Tornado prediction times... Like Reed Timmer but less of a dick, from what I read that's a loose term for him...
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