Build Log V2 (06' Si) - Realm of Excursion



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Old 05-01-2014   #1 (permalink)
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Default Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Seeing I'm venturing into more SQL over the on the fence deal I have been doing which can be seen in my previous Build log:

http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/bu...-sq-build.html

I've been talking to a member on DIYMA about helping me out learning the ropes with tuning and so far things have been great. We meet up this past Tuesday and he knows his stuff. The process might kill me but I will enjoy working with him and learning the ropes.

I've got nothing against my Anarchy's but I'm going to take them out (for now) and try out some Dayton audio RS180-4.

Was only able to meter my driver side Anarchy (no thanks to software issues and then all of a sudden my tweeter wouldn't work, software related) but overall the driver in my application does good up to 4k usable. Granted there are some dips, and peaks which could be a result of many things from what I was told. For example:

1) Leg
2) Plastics
3) Install

Not to much I can do as I really don't want to get crazy.


Here is the FR of the driver side mid only. Averaged 4 times each (L,R ear, nose) and then the average of the three different positions. When taken the mic was not stationary. Rotating in a circular motion being careful not to introduce noise and as close to ears/nose as possible. When you look at the graph bellow you may say that's really good. Keep in mind the increments are in 20db's so after 50hz it falls of quick and the dip right around 1k we figured right around 17 db down from the peak. As far as if its actually that noticeable when listening to it. Well I can't really tell a lot. You can tell there is a lack there but its not detrimental to the overall sound.






Not the best by any means (purely a midbass driver 60-450ish in it's current application) but could be fairly successful with a decently matched tweeter and some time for proper install, possibly doing sealed in a properly matched box, etc... Do look to see the Anarchy again though. I'm going to grab some wideband speakers and do a custom A pillar build. Anarchy's as midbass and the wideband speakers on up... Before people toss in the towel and say this is going to fail, I'm going to use Audible Physics RAM3-A with ATs (Ambiance Transducers). Technically a 3-way setup but processor/amps only see 2-way.
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Old 05-06-2014   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Well I was able to test out some Dayton Audio RS180-4 so I swapped them in place of the Anarchy drivers. So far (no work in) they are different. Mainly due to the metal cone.

Overall they are very nice, well built drivers. The cone piece is metal and cone as said above is also metal. Classified as a 7" driver. Basket is very similar size wise as the Anarchy's.

The Anarchy's are not out for the count as I do plan to swap back to them when I switch over my front stage to a full range driver in the A pillar I will go back to them.
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Old 05-24-2014   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Update:

Got a fair bit cleaned up today in the trunk. Re-routed wiring and changed a couple things around and it looks much better the it did. Still not done as I still need to run power/ground up front so I can have a common ground between my 360.3 and HU. Also will get my optical interlink run as well as getting the dc/dc converters for the 12v, 5v and 7.5v I will need for the pure I 20 and fan controller.

Anyway enough of the blah blah blah:









Here shows the fuse block I'm going to use to fuse the main power run up front and the 360.3. It's a little overkill on the amount I can do but if I ever need to add something else I have a point to do so easily.



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Old 05-24-2014   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)







Here I'm getting stuff put back in the car. Flipped the highs amp around so I could route the speaker wire better.





Yes everything is upside down. It's how it worked out. Won't be seen anyway unless I want it to be seen.
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Old 06-29-2014   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Update:

Got my new Laptop in so should be working on tuning here in the next few weeks. Also have decided on what I will be doing for my next sub stage. Here on July 12th I will be grabbing two 15" Dayton Audio Ultimax for a IB setup. Should be sick so stay tuned for some awesome IB goodness.
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Old 07-06-2014   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

nice bro IB should sound good
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Old 07-07-2014   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickinBlazer View Post
nice bro IB should sound good
Ya I'm getting excited. Grabbing the drivers this Saturday and hopefully will get going on the build soon. Will get some nice pictures of the drivers.

Also I'm talking with Mark (TREOSOLS) about building me some custom A pillars to house some AP RAM3-A with ATs. So I'm really excited about that as well. Moving from the SPL mindset to SQL and its my hopes to bring back SQ in the state of Ohio but still have some bit in the bass department.

Not to mention I'm practicing and learning the ropes for tuning as well. Lots of work and I'm glade for forums as I would never get to where I am without them.
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Old 07-08-2014   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

lots of people dont realize that you can have the best of both worlds....you can still have some serious bass and make it sound great to
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Old 07-10-2014   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickinBlazer View Post
lots of people dont realize that you can have the best of both worlds....you can still have some serious bass and make it sound great to
Very true and its my hope to achieve LOW BASSSSS! and make a grown man cry sound.
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Old 07-11-2014   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Update: PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A COPY PASTE

I finally got to have some time to do up the FR graphs of each driver (minus sub ATM). All EQ on HU and 360.3 set to flat and adjusted slope and HPF/LPF/BP to allow a solid look at the general response within each drivers spec range (give or take some).

Driver/Passenger Mid (RED=Driver, GREEN=Passenger)



Driver/Passenger Tweeter (GRAY=Driver, PURPLE=Passenger)



Both tweeters and Mids (colors the same)




I'm no expert so I can only look at this and say it looks (without EQ/Level adjustment) very good fairly flat and nothing to me jumps out with a major RED flag.


So at this point I'm at the point of what I have learned so far. I know for a fact that with this data I am able to figure out Level matching the drivers and looking for a good crossover between the drivers. Currently completely stock other the EQ I have the drivers crossed:

Sub 80Hz
Mids 80Hz-2000Hz
Tweeters 2000hz+

The slopes I have set as fairly steep (but have no reason for where they are set so won't be mentioning them.

Here is the .mdat file that has all my measurement data for ones who want to take a look in REW.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4wdat3ogr...nt%20data.mdat
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Old 07-11-2014   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Thanks ErinH. I definitely used your site. Had to adjust gains so here is the clean slate with NO TA, EQ Flat, LR balance center.

No TA Starting point:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lv3t9lnd43l8hd8/No%20TA.mdat

With TA:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwg09575vj...With%20TA.mdat

Both TA and No TA for comparison:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rp78a1wlxy...0and%20TA.mdat

1/12 smoothing:



1/3 smoothing:



1/1 smoothing:




To answer your question sqnut:

Does the deep dip at 2khz improve?

Doesn't seems so. Biggest change was outside that 2khz range though. Especially tweeter


It won't be hard to tame the sub down. I usually have a couple notches down on the sub level on the 360.3 remote. Room for some oomph when I want it but can and do tame it down for daily. I'm off to bed. I'm whooped
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Old 07-11-2014   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Ok implemented some changes ErinH and sqnut suggested.

Notes:

1) Changed the crossover point to 2500hz instead of 2000hz for mid and tweeter.

2) Cut 200Hz up full -24db with Q=5 (I stated wrong earlier guys 360.3 Q setting is like this (.1= Widest , 6= Narrowest) on Sub. Intermittent EQ setting from 100 to 200hz

3) Cut 5Khz up full -24db with Q=5 on mids. Intermittent EQ setting from 2.5Khz to 5Khz

4) Cut 1Khz down full -24db with Q=5 on tweets. Intermittent EQ setting from 2.5Khz to 1Khz (now this I may have set a little lower then 1Khz I can't recall atm.

5) While looking at the responses I got I changed the overall level of my passenger tweeter -5db.

6) " " " " I dropped mids 400hz= -2db, 1Khz= -1db, 1250hz=-4db, 1600hz=-1db


Now the data/graphs do not reflect the #5 and #6 change listed above. I didn't have time to graph that. Will get that tomorrow morning (pending what happens at work).

Here are some screen shots for those on a phone:

TA Invert tweet and No invert Tweet:



TA No invert Tweet:



TA Invert Tweet:



Here is the mdat files:

TA No invert Tweet and Invert Tweet:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zgtlpg1qmt...and%20not.mdat

TA Tweet No Invert:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5bc3ghfg6...%20invert.mdat

TA Tweet Invert:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/25gxjglw1r...%20invert.mdat


Overall with the changes so far the imaging has improved a lot. Night and Day. Bass up front (some rattles in the rear bring that back some). Staging is good, tweeters location bring it down but as stated above I have a fix for that. Doing the full cuts listed above greatly improved the overall sound. Tightened things up, solidified the imaging even more. Driver side mid is strong 100hz-200hz as can be seen above. Being able to hear and see, and understand why its happening is nice. Overall very impressed. Best I've heard out of it so far.
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Old 07-11-2014   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Slight update:

I did a couple more adjustments L/R on the mids as from listening driving to work and home the 80-300hz range was just to strong. Using the 80PRS I was able to tame that range till just now when I adjusted using the 360.3

Change notes:

1) Cut 20Hz on both mids -16db. This is in attempt to roll off faster. Low end on these mids is strong. That could be the Sub as well seeing everything is coming from the front now so my initial distinction may be wrong. Will test my changes. May roll of the sub even more.

2) Driver side changes: Cut 100hz and 125hz by -1db @ Q= 6, 200hz by -2db @ Q=6

3) Passenger side changes: Cut 80hz by -5.0db @ Q= 5.5, 100hz by -4db @ Q=4.3, 125hz by -.5db @ Q= 5.5, 160hz by -5.5db @ Q= 5.5


Now I haven't measured this as its 90 in my garage right now so am waiting for it to cool down. I haven't touched the tweeters yet independently as I haven't yet seen the result of the overall level change I implemented yesterday.

Some potential changes:

The tweeters IMO could use a slight boost on the gain. I tend to like a little more tweeter. Not sure what I will do with the mids yet. Will have to see what cutting did side to side. May increase the crossover to 85-90hz (on the mids only, I know a little underlap on the sub/mids but may not be to noticeable by ear, especially if I do 85hz, will experiment a little with that.

Also to make it known I'm rolling with the tweeters inverted.
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Old 08-04-2014   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Day 1 Update:

Vacation time. Time to work on the car:

Not a whole lot going on today other then tare down and cleaning things up. I was going to try and get some CLD laid today but I wasn't able to grab more CLD in time for today's progress. I purchased the 40 pounder (from SS, B stock Damplifier) and should have it by the end of the day Wednesday so tossed a slight wrench in my plans but it will be fine.

I will say now the car was a mess, Not audio wise but actual mess. It's time for a deep clean.

Sorry this one is a little dark but got the seats out. Driver side was a pain as the bolts have been warn down so much I need to grab some new ones. Also need to look into taping the hole again as its gummed up. Not striped. Need to make sure to put never cease on the bolt when I put the new ones in.



Here is a better shot:



Got the rear seat removed. Wasn't to bad, forgot about one mounting bolt and had to search a little bit before the seat came out.



Got the center counsel removed. Couple bolts and it is out:



Here I got the carpeting out. The extra red/black wiring I removed completely (was for my interior courtesy lights). Unfortunately things will be harder for me as far as the firewall area goes. There is padding already there which seems to be glued down from the factory. Not sure how I will tackle it. May have to wait till I can tare out the entire dash. I will have to see.




Taking a break now as we have new furniture coming in. I may or may not take anymore pics today as I probably won't tackle much more today. Stay tuned for tomorrows progress. Here is a little list of whats going on:

1) Map out the route my new speaker wire run will take and get that run.
2) Map out and run the main power/ground run to the front.
3) Re ground HU and redo power wire as well (this will mean all my audio will be ground at one source)
4) Layout how I will mount the DC/DC converters (5v and 7.5v) for Pure i20 and temp controller

All wire runs will get techflex (as long as I have enough), labeled, and secured every 8 inches.

That should be about all I will do tomorrow. Stay tuned
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Old 08-04-2014   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Damn nice car getting new carpet and seats cleaned?..nice bro wish I had time for that no vacation for me till next year
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Old 08-04-2014   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickinBlazer View Post
Damn nice car getting new carpet and seats cleaned?..nice bro wish I had time for that no vacation for me till next year
No, no new carpet (even though I probably have enough to do so), what it is getting is a really nice Deep clean though. Stock carpeting is in really good shape.

I've been waiting a while to use some vacation. Luckily it worked out and I didn't have to wait for the new year. Required to take 5 days off for the calender year and in a month I will have another week that I can utilize. I might not as I could carry over 5 days into next year.
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Old 08-04-2014   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Carry it over and take 10 days next year...lol
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Old 08-05-2014   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickinBlazer View Post
Carry it over and take 10 days next year...lol
plan to....


Update Day 2:

Got a far bit done today. Started of by adding techflex to the power run up front and my optical cable. Turned out really nice. Love the look.

So started the run to the front:



It's hard to see but I have the main battery run going to the barrier strip (think its a 30/40 amp barrier strip) and there is a jumper off the 12V+ that goes to the fuse block. I can use up to 6 different 12V+ fused connections off this block. ATM I only have the 360.3 fused.

I then ran the line to the front from this point...

Here is how I routed the RCA input, Optical input, and remote for the 360.3. I tried to stay away from the power run. So far succeeding.



Power/ground run at the top and RCA, optical, and remote down bellow:



Power ground run enters into the cabin through a hole in the support:



Up over the hump:



Continues the run to the front via the stock run. Couple places I had to make a mounting point but for the most part just zip tied to the stock run:



RCA, Optical, Remote come in on the passenger side rail:

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Old 08-05-2014   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Wires run under the seat mount and take a left towards center of car:



What isn't shown in the RCA's along with this run. Later one I add this run, wasn't to sure how I wanted to run the RCA's quite yet as of the pic:



Now this is what the stock grounds look like. PAINT!!!! Bad for conductivity. I fixed this via grinding the paint off to bare metal. Should be quite the improvement over what it was. Did both the passenger side and driver side. There is one ground (probably for the stock amp) towards the front of the center counsel area. I will fix this one as well, might as well



Now this this something I did last night. I decided to paint the terminals for some improved looks. Not meant to look perfect btw.





Now this will be the about it for today. You may ask why I'm taking so long on wiring. Well I'm spreading work out between the days as I won't have my CLD till tomorrow afternoon sometime. So I should be able to get the rest of the wiring done tomorrow morning and get started on laying CLD tomorrow afternoon/evening. Then Thursday finish off the CLD and lay down a layer of the Thermal padding I have.
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Old 08-06-2014   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Day 3 Update:

Got the rest of the wiring done and was able to test power things. So far everything works and not magic smoke so all a success so far.

Also worked on some CLD in the rear portion of the car. No pics as of yet as most of the day was applying Techflex to wiring and waiting on UPS to deliver the CLD.

Tomorrow I will finish up the CLD, apply the thermal padding and then hopefully be able to clean and get the carpet in the car (it will be tight with the extra padding but hope it will work)
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Old 08-06-2014   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

that extra padding is going to make the carpet seam extra plush
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Old 08-07-2014   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickinBlazer View Post
that extra padding is going to make the carpet seam extra plush
All the better


Update:

Halfway into Day 4:

Now here is a couple shots of what I finished up yesterday:








Now so far this is where I sit.



Only have a small section to do in the front and I'm done placing CLD. I left all the airbag sensor stuff alone. As far as the plan for the padding.

From experience of other members who own 8th gen Si's the plastic trim doesn't give enough space to allow for much padding (looking at less then 1/4" total. My padding is 3/8" plus whatever the thickness of the carpet is) so I will have to trim it to fit where this trim doesn't go. So for the most part its going to be 4 different sections which will be held via velcro in the corners for easy access to potential wiring repairs (even though I placed cld over a good portion of it), additions of wiring, etc...


Also I want to say a little something about the B stock damplifier I got from SS. Overall this stuff has been great. Not to mention $$$ per weight of this stuff you can't really beat. Give or take 40 pounds gives me roughly 105 Sq Ft of this stuff. Will have to weight what I have left but I can tell you this. I will have more then enough to do the rest of my trunk, sides of the car and possibly the roof when all is said and done. Awesome stuff...
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Old 08-07-2014   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

I realize beck sometimes it's kinna of a pain but could you maybe throw in a few pics of it nextime you update????
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Old 08-08-2014   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

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Originally Posted by southerntrendkill View Post
I realize beck sometimes it's kinna of a pain but could you maybe throw in a few pics of it nextime you update????
I sure can.
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Old 08-08-2014   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Build Log V2 (06' Si)

Day 5 Update:

Today was button up day as Tomorrow 98Civic and I are working on replacing the CMC

Day started off with sweeping the carpet:



I wasn't able to wash it as our carpet cleaner, even though it has a small head that would work, doesn't seem to suck the water up. So instead I just gave it a good sweep and when I can get some cleaner I will get things cleaned.

Once that was fairly clean I went ahead and placed it into the car:





As you can see there are a few dirt stains. I then took a screw driver and tucked all the corners of the carpet under the plastic trim.

Next part was getting the seats back in:



Sorry about that shot had something on the lense which shows as that orangish glow. After this I got the backs back on and everything in this part of the car cleaned up.

Then it was time for the center counsel and front seats to go back in:



The dash and everything is still dirty. The plan is to get that cleaned up tonight.

Now on the driver side I did not replace the dead pedal as my tweeter is right above it and I'm sure reflections are crazy off of it. One thing I might have to adjust is the delay on my drivers seems as if the stage shifted more towards the driver side but still need to toss in a dedicated L/R/C tracks to determine if I need to shift anything.

Now you may ask why the hell I'm including this pic:



Well if you remember I painted the front bumper trim black and the H red. I'm looking to paint the H in the rear red and remove the "Ganley/Civic" emblem completely. Hopefully tonight

Here are some pics of the B stock Damp from SS:








With the 40 pounder kit you may get full sheets, half sheets, pieces, etc but everything is usable and works just fine.
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