Generic Boxes for ROE Comments - Realm of Excursion



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Old 04-14-2008   #1 (permalink)
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Default Generic Boxes for ROE Comments

yall know what....Fallen is the man....this guy will help ANYBODY and never bitches about it....*votes Fallen for president 09*
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Old 05-07-2008   #2 (permalink)
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Awesome work fallen!
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Old 07-10-2008   #3 (permalink)
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I'd like to point something out. When you increase the length of the port you're lowering the internal volume of the box. The box volume becomes the area inside the box that doesn't include the port.

That and you have to factor in the displacement of the sub which can cause the tuning to go south on really small boxes. A 2 cu ft overall box with a slot port 1"X16" loses 1.75" X 16" plus whatever displacement the sub has so the tuning will be higher than a 2 cu ft box with the same port added to it would be. Adding the sub raises the tuning even higher unless you invert the sub and run the chassis exposed.
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Old 07-12-2008   #4 (permalink)
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Hence why most the boxes dimensions changed as tuning went down



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Old 07-12-2008   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
Hence why most the boxes dimensions changed as tuning went down
I commented because posts 4 and 5 and all 4 boxes in them list the box volume as .5ft in spite of the fact that the true footprint of the enclosures never changed and the ports keep shrinking the actual woofer chamber.

Now whether the tuning holds for the net box volume or not I don't know as I never plotted the boxes to find out but on the chance that they don't I thought I'd play "Captain Obvious" and point it out.
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Old 07-12-2008   #6 (permalink)
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Ok you are correct, its already been discussed, but the discussion was lost when all the post dumping was cleaned up.

The one tuned the lowest is 0.535481771 cuft, tuned to 33Hz. The one tuned highest is 0.642578125cuft tuned to 45Hz. Obviously driver displacement will raise the tuning...marginally.

I think you're missing the point, these are generic boxes. They aren't necessarily 100% correct, but they are close. They are ment as plans for beginners to use who don't want to pay out the ass for a design.

Anyways feel free to contribute designs. You raise a valid point, but you'll see that its already been taken care of in latter designs.

-Thanks, Jud.



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Old 07-12-2008   #7 (permalink)
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If I can find the modeling program you're using and figure it out I'd love to toss out a design or two.

I'm kind of intrigued by the fact that you're using 1" slots, I've always assumed most people would consider them to be too restrictive or have the potential to make excessive port noise.

I recently re-tuned the box I'm using (1.78 cu ft net volume) that had been tuned to 40hz. It had a 2" X 11.75 slot port and shrinking the port to 1" X 9.5" lowered the tuning to 28hz with a -3db point of 25.7hz with my particular sub. I figured out that the port area is the same as a 3.475" round port so the noise should not be an issue but I was still concerned that the cross sectional area of the port might be inclined to whistle or moan. Seeing that someone as highly regarded as yourself is using the same cross section slots helps to set my mind at ease.
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Old 07-12-2008   #8 (permalink)
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Akabak, WinISD, Hornresp(although I didn't post any horns here, its a good program), Bass Box Pro 6(I hate it...but it works), and google sketchup.

The port area I used followed the rule of thumb of about 15sq in of port per cuft of volume. Its just a rule of thumb, because to truly know how much port area you need, you need to know how much Power the driver will see. So when I design boxes for people, the rule of thumb goes out the window. Instead I go by their maximum power, and try to keep the port velocity under 30m/s in a car, and 17m/s for home theater.


Another reason I can get away with those small ports on those little boxes, is that there aren't too many subs that can handle alot of power, that would fit in those boxes. So the power is limited from the get go, and thus the port velocity.


In all honesty however, I'm not a fan of small boxes with long ports, I use passive radiators instead. They sound very good, and take up very little volume. But If I posted up designs with PRs, the noobs would be like WTF is that?!?!



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Old 07-12-2008   #9 (permalink)
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Default My toolbox :D

http://sketchup.google.com/download/
http://www.randteam.de/_Software/AkA...ad-AkAbak.html
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro
http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/dmcbean/
http://www.ht-audio.com/

Cough http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3229123/BassBox_Pro_v6.0.18_(speaker_enclosure_design_prog ram)
Cough



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Old 07-12-2008   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
Akabak, WinISD, Hornresp(although I didn't post any horns here, its a good program), Bass Box Pro 6(I hate it...but it works), and google sketchup.

The port area I used followed the rule of thumb of about 15sq in of port per cuft of volume. Its just a rule of thumb, because to truly know how much port area you need, you need to know how much Power the driver will see. So when I design boxes for people, the rule of thumb goes out the window. Instead I go by their maximum power, and try to keep the port velocity under 30m/s in a car, and 17m/s for home theater.


Another reason I can get away with those small ports on those little boxes, is that there aren't too many subs that can handle alot of power, that would fit in those boxes. So the power is limited from the get go, and thus the port velocity.


In all honesty however, I'm not a fan of small boxes with long ports, I use passive radiators instead. They sound very good, and take up very little volume. But If I posted up designs with PRs, the noobs would be like WTF is that?!?!
I bow to you, passive radiators FTW! If only there was a large supply of good cone based PR's to choose from. Most of the PR's I see are the flat, foam covered, corrugated paper Frisbee things that aren't worth a damn. I know Boston has some "designed for the 5 series" but they're a bit pricier than I'd like although they are tunable. I think that should I Build a new box I'll go the passive radiator route as they're a lot more forgiving than tubes are.
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Old 07-12-2008   #11 (permalink)
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I suggest taking a sub with plenty of Xsus, a known VAS, CMS, MMS, SD...etc and removing the motor. Then use winISD to figure out how much mass to add to the cone.

I've done it with a busted eD 16OV2. In a 2.66cuft box with a active 16O, it does 144.4 on the TL, with 1kW at 45Hz. Not a bad score for a 15" sub in a 2.66cuft box hahaha.

I did it with a ****ty eD EQHS sub too for a passive for a Tang Band W7 740C, works good except the stupid tang band is capable of bottoming the 12" passive...wtf eh.

Which is why you need lots of xsus

http://www.creativesound.ca/index.html Sells some wicked PRs, and http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=527 sells some decent ones



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Old 03-13-2010   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

Fallen, nice boxes dude, just a simple comment, 2" clearance from the port to the back wall of the box isnīt to small? i mean, i think you could have more output if you give more clearence there thereīs a rule (you already know this) that the clearence most be at least the port opening but when the port width is bigger, but for 2" width port i would still use about 4" distance from the port to the back wall of the box, just saying, keep the good work dude...
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Old 03-14-2010   #13 (permalink)
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Think of that port as an L port, but the second section is the .75" width of the wood. That's why it's exactly a port's width away from the back wall.



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Old 03-21-2010   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
Do you guys think it would be worth while posting up boxes designed for 2 subs, which have 2 separate chambers?

This one could work for 2 15s(lol not many would like a box this small however) or 2 12s

Net volume: 4cuft (2 per chamber)
Tuning: 30Hz
Port Area: 60(15"Hx4"W)
Dimensions:16.5H"X21.5D"x36W"



What do you guys think?
I'll do regular 4cuft boxes as well.
Hello all. This is my first post but have been reading these forums for several weeks now.

I would be interested in seeing some smaller 2 chamber ported designs.
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Old 04-11-2010   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
Do you guys think it would be worth while posting up boxes designed for 2 subs, which have 2 separate chambers?

This one could work for 2 15s(lol not many would like a box this small however) or 2 12s

Net volume: 4cuft (2 per chamber)
Tuning: 30Hz
Port Area: 60(15"Hx4"W)
Dimensions:16.5H"X21.5D"x36W"



What do you guys think?
I'll do regular 4cuft boxes as well.
actually i am going to build this tomorrow ill let u guys know if it actually looks like the picture thank you for the desing
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Old 04-12-2010   #16 (permalink)
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Awesome, I hope it works out well for you.
It should look pretty similar, since I draw everything to scale.



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Old 04-13-2010   #17 (permalink)
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wait i just notice that this is for two twelve dis sux is there any i could get this to work for two 15's i was going to buy the materials tomorrow i bought everything else its going into at a 92 lincoln towncar and wanted to carpet it with red leather or fake leather which ever comes out cheaper or maybe some carpet from my room lol
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Old 04-13-2010   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by -0nes- View Post
wait i just notice that this is for two twelve dis sux is there any i could get this to work for two 15's i was going to buy the materials tomorrow i bought everything else its going into at a 92 lincoln towncar and wanted to carpet it with red leather or fake leather which ever comes out cheaper or maybe some carpet from my room lol
As long as it's the right cubic footage and tuning for the subs it will be fine. Obviously you'll change the size of the cutout.
You'll probably want to double baffle it if you can, since those baffles will be fairly weak with a 14" diameter cutout. Double baffling it will lower the tuning slightly, if that's a concern shorten the ports by 3/4".

Edit,
What 15s are you running?
I run a pair of 15s in my intrepid, and it takes up the entire trunk.
If you haven't gotten them yet, consider going with 2 12s. It's hard to give 2 15s the air space they need in a trunk car.
If you do keep the 15s, let me know what they are, I'll see if I can find a suitable box design for you. The one you currently like is almost certainly too small.



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Old 04-13-2010   #19 (permalink)
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well the air space is fine i am going to run 2 cvrs i have not a whole lot of power just a infinity ref611a mono block and trunk space i am not worry about that i have plenty to even fit 4 15s its going into a lincoln town car
about the tunning kicker those not give any specific number just the volume ect. unless i am not reading right well the cut out hole is going 13 11/16 give me about 1 5/16 left should be enough well ill try to double buffle it
ohh an this is what kicker recomends this box should work
Size (IN.,CM) 15, 38.0
Impedance (OHMS) 2 or 4 DVC
Max Rec Amplifier Power (WATTS PEAK/RMS)* 1000/500
Sensitivity (dB 1w/1m) 89.2
Frequency Response (Hz) 25-500
Mounting Depth (IN.,CM) 8 3/16, 20.7
Mounting Cutout (IN.,CM) 13 11/16, 34.7
Min Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) 1.8, 51
Max Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) 5.2, 147
Min Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 3, 85
Max Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 5, 142
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Old 04-13-2010   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

The minimum recommended ported box volume is 3 cuft...each chamber is 2 cuft. You'll need a bigger box.

I've worked with town cars, you don't have room for 4 15s. They may fit, but you will not be able to give the subs the air space they need and have enough port area. Maybe 4 15s sealed, but even that would be pushing it.

I'll draw you up something, but get me your maximum dimensions. Go out and measure the minimum height, width and depth available in that trunk.



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Car: 2009 Audi A4 Avant Quattro
Sub amp: Hifonics ZXX-3200.1D
Subwoofers: 4 SA8V.2 @ 2 Ohms
Enclosure: 2 cu ft ported, tuned to 33Hz
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Old 04-13-2010   #21 (permalink)
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lol to late for that i am almost finished building the box but i added and inch to every thing to make it more even expect the ports it only cost me about 25 dollars for the materials particle board was the cheapest but i also got some mdf for free and some peel and seal screws and some glue and a counter sick bit each chamber now has bout 4 ft3

well i added 1 .5 inch to every thing and the high by 2 inches . oh what exactly happens if the box is to small then the rec. size?

Last edited by Fallen; 06-18-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 04-14-2010   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

It'll just decrease your output around tuning, decrease the rate that it rolls off, and probably give you a bit of a boost in the 60-80Hz region.
It'll also decrease the amount of excursion the sub will use with the same power in...which can be a good thing.



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Car: 2009 Audi A4 Avant Quattro
Sub amp: Hifonics ZXX-3200.1D
Subwoofers: 4 SA8V.2 @ 2 Ohms
Enclosure: 2 cu ft ported, tuned to 33Hz
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

well i did finish the box today i let the glue set in for like 4 hrs and got anxious so i hooked it up an i did notice every thing u mention but i dont hit the lows as good as the other box i had but still sounds good having one 15 hooked up now i need to set the other one as soon as i get it
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Default Re: Generic Boxes For the ROE Box Page!

I have 2x JL Audio 12w1v2-4's, they require 1.75Cu.ft enclosure what will happen if i build your box thats 2Cu.ft, will it lower the tuning frequency?? What will lowering tuning frequency do, cause the sub to produce other frequencies not as well??
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Having a box slightly too big will give you a larger peak around tuning, and worse performance elsewhere generally speaking.

That said, 2cuft is just fine for those subs.

The tuning of the box would be lower if you kept the port length the same(and the area) while making the box bigger. But just putting a sub in a larger box doesn't lower the tuning of the box. The box is tuned to what it is tuned to. So if the manufacture recommends 1.75cuft tuned to say 35Hz, you'll be fine with 2 cuft tuned to 35Hz. Or you could tune higher or lower based on your tastes. Honestly subs don't require a certain volume to work. You could put your 12s in a 20cuft box if you wanted, but you would end up with a greatly reduced mechanical power handling, a huge peak at tuning, and a response that would probably sound like crap. Conversely you could put it in 1cuft and tune to 35Hz as well, there would be no peak at tuning and it would likely start rolling off much before the 35Hz tuning(and thus you would be sacrificing output). The mechanical power handling would be increased.

Hope that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -0nes- View Post
well i did finish the box today i let the glue set in for like 4 hrs and got anxious so i hooked it up an i did notice every thing u mention but i dont hit the lows as good as the other box i had but still sounds good having one 15 hooked up now i need to set the other one as soon as i get it
Good stuff...but...
The reason you are not getting much low end is because your port is 2 times too wide.
Once you get the other sub in it'll be ok.
But right now the one chamber is seeing a port 2X too wide(it starts out at the right size, goes around the bend and then it's 2X too wide.

So once you get that second sub it should have a better low end.



__________________
Car: 2009 Audi A4 Avant Quattro
Sub amp: Hifonics ZXX-3200.1D
Subwoofers: 4 SA8V.2 @ 2 Ohms
Enclosure: 2 cu ft ported, tuned to 33Hz

Last edited by Fallen; 06-18-2010 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Double
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