Daily 6th order, what do you think? - Page 3 - Realm of Excursion



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Old 11-09-2012   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by jcarver1112 View Post
inches lol. just a small window so you can see the front of the sub was all I was looking for. Just measured it out and I would be looking to put in a 10" x 10" piece right in the front. Either that or some raised lettering or a logo or something but I think poly/plexi would be the coolest with some led's on the inside.
lol I figured...
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Old 11-09-2012   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

Panzy sh*t, real men cut the whole box with a jig saw and a drill bit... Or atleast the real poor men like me.
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Old 11-09-2012   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Slobalt7 View Post
Panzy sh*t, real men cut the whole box with a jig saw and a drill bit... Or atleast the real poor men like me.
Lol cant say I've ever done that. Although I did see someone who made a box for the center console of a Tacoma using only a jig saw. Looked, interesting to say the lest.

Boredom + Jigsaw + One afternoon... - Tacoma World Forums

Now I have done it without a strait edge before using just my circular saw, not the nicest box that i've ever built lol. There are a few things I would do differently if I had the money to spend right now. First my ports were cut out using a jig saw and I did my best to sand them straight lol. Also my circle cutout for the sub was done using a jig saw. If I had the money I would have purchased a flush cut bit and did the ports after the face was installed. That way they would have been perfect. And I would have built a circle jig for my router if I had the money for a good strait bit for the router. I wouldn't have used that crappy 1/2" stuff and I would obviously use a table saw if I had the money to spend on one. But hey we do what we can with what we got.
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Old 11-10-2012   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

Ok heres the final result, excluding the finishing with carpet or paint or something, maybe some truck bed liner . But all the nail holes and such are filled and its been sanded and installed in the car.

Here's my thoughts. My previous box was tuned to 41hz with a really large port. Idea for burps in the mid 40's. It fell off pretty quick and you couldn't hear much below 35hz. It also fell off quickly above 50hz and was hard to hear much in the 60 range.

In comparison the new box is just a touch louder. It plays pretty flat from about 35-60 hz and is noticeable quieter around 70hz and up. the interesting thing is I actually tuned the low port down to 29hz instead of 31 like I had planned. I expected it to get pretty low but what I found is it falls off pretty sharply under 34-35 hz. You cant hear anything under 30 but you can feel it pretty well. My guess would be because of the sub I'm using. This is purely a guess but the sub has an fs of 43hz. I think it just has to be the sub.
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Old 11-10-2012   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?





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Old 11-10-2012   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

still looks like poop

i noticed on my 6th that it fell off very sharply above the lower tuning as well(although mine was series tuned). never really played with any other configurations on it, so I have no idea why that was. I was in the same ball park, tuned 29/30, fell off a cliff at 32/33. playing flat is nice though, seems like it worked out pretty much as it was expected
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Old 11-10-2012   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

6th orders fall on there face hard at low tuning
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Old 11-10-2012   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

who wants to Build a nice abc box? this guy right here.

i have a lvl5 18 i need to abuse on 8k til it pops so i can sell the motor to a buddy lol
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Old 11-10-2012   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by cxa0897 View Post
still looks like poop

i noticed on my 6th that it fell off very sharply above the lower tuning as well(although mine was series tuned). never really played with any other configurations on it, so I have no idea why that was. I was in the same ball park, tuned 29/30, fell off a cliff at 32/33. playing flat is nice though, seems like it worked out pretty much as it was expected
Hmm, well at least its not just me experienced that sharp drop off on low tuning. It worked ok. I would have been much happier to if it played down to about 28 but hey thats life right.

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
6th orders fall on there face hard at low tuning
Good to know. I never realized that. Would you say a standard ported would be more capable at low frequencies?

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
who wants to Build a nice abc box? this guy right here.

i have a lvl5 18 i need to abuse on 8k til it pops so i can sell the motor to a buddy lol
I wouldn't know where to begin on designing one but from what I understand there not for me. I like output more than sq.
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Old 11-10-2012   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

they all fall flat. thats inherent of 6th orders and vented enclosures. The issue I had was it falling flat above the tuning. it was already starting its death roll several hz about the lower tuning, which is what I did not want.
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Old 11-10-2012   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by cxa0897 View Post
they all fall flat. thats inherent of 6th orders and vented enclosures. The issue I had was it falling flat above the tuning. it was already starting its death roll several hz about the lower tuning, which is what I did not want.
Ya thats exactly what mine did. I tuned the upper to 60hz and it has about a 24db/oct roll off up from there. I'm just disappointed in the falling off so quickly down low. It actually falls off before the lower port tuning which is what caught me off guard. I wonder if tuning down to say 25 hz would remedy that and allow it to play down to 30ish with authority.

I've seen a few guys Build ported enclosures tuned around 25hz just for fun and they sounded kind of cool but sealed have been king from what I've heard when it comes to playing low.

What would be the idea type of enclosure for a sub with a high ebp if you wanted it to play flat from say 25-80hz. I'm guessing not possible.
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Old 11-10-2012   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

small ported enclosure. or sealed. a 6th could work, but it would be finicky, and would have to sacrifice a large amount of efficiency.

edit. 24 db/oct is standard for both upper and lower. it is very much a band limited enclosure, unlike ported, which only rolls off below its tuning.
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Old 11-10-2012   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

well overall not a bad box I guess. Better than the other one really.

Does anyone have any thought on the chips in the magnet or the alignment of the magnets?
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Old 11-10-2012   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

this is why i generally aim around 25hz for a low side tuning unless i dont want to play a note under 30hz. with the drop in output there is also a drop in cone control
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Old 11-10-2012   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
this is why i generally aim around 25hz for a low side tuning unless i dont want to play a note under 30hz. with the drop in output there is also a drop in cone control
Thanks. I'll try that next time
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Old 11-10-2012   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
this is why i generally aim around 25hz for a low side tuning unless i dont want to play a note under 30hz. with the drop in output there is also a drop in cone control
So If I wanted to play down to 15hz I would need it tuned to 10hz lol?
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Old 11-11-2012   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

if you want to play 15hz you need a 4th order or sealed
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Old 11-11-2012   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by SINTORMAN View Post
So If I wanted to play down to 15hz I would need it tuned to 10hz lol?
Sadly that's the way it sounds.

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
if you want to play 15hz you need a 4th order or sealed
Again sadly this just confirms that I will likely not buy another sub that's designed to only work in ported enclosures. When I do the math, an 18" in a sealed enclosure would be almost as loud as a 12 in a ported and it would take up the same amount of space (if the 12 was tuned low) but will play flatter, lower and sound nicer.

I compared the NS v.2 12 and 18.
12 in 1.6 ported to 31
18 in 3 sealed.
Both on 2500w rms.

What I found:
Cone excursion
Much lower on the 18. The 12 looks like it should be in an even smaller box but going much smaller just makes the port crazy long and just a mess.
Vent Velocity
38 m/s wtih a 32 sq in port for the 12. So again the port needs to be bigger any longer. Again what a mess.
Not applicable on the 18 obviously
SPL
18 is flat from 25 to 65 and gradually falls off from there.
12 falls off 6db from 31 to 41, and 13 db from 31 to 60!
12 is about 2.1 db louder at tuning. This doesn't change if you tune higher with exception of resonate frequency tuning.
Space
12 is 2.91 cu ft including port displacement and sub
18 is 3.16 cu ft including sub.


Unless I'm just going to for one note wonder I think I'm going with sealed 18's moving forward. I'd love to hit those crazy low notes.
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Old 11-11-2012   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

thats why i moved to 15s from the 8s, and am going with a very small ported enclosure, will give a response very close to sealed, with a slight gain. try modeling an 18 in a ported enclosure slightly larger than the sealed, like 3.5 - 4 cubes or so.
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Last edited by cxa0897; 11-11-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 11-11-2012   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by cxa0897 View Post
thats why i moved to 15s from the 8s, and am going with a very small ported enclosure, will give a response very close to sealed, with a slight gain. try modeling an 18 in a ported enclosure slightly larger than the sealed, like 3.5 - 4 cubes or so.
You forget one thing though. An 18 ported, even in 3.5 you have to add the port into the equation for total space. If your wanting real low end you would probably tune around 30-31. If I chose 60 sq in of port area for a 3.5 box at 31. The result is 5.54 gross which could almost accommodate 2 18's sealed. What I found is it does produce a flatter response but nothing like the sealed. The same ns v.2 18 in the 3.5 ported. Its about 2 db louder at tuning (much like the 12's) than 2 18's sealed but stills rolls off 5db from 31 to 60 and another 5 db from 60 to 80. The other problem I have at this point is you limited on power with just one sub.

I guess all in all if money was a limiting factor (as it is for most of us), and you listened to mostly rap type music, that 18 in 3.5 at 34hz would be pretty decent. Don't expect much from it over 60hz but with that type of music it doesn't really matter I guess.
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Old 11-11-2012   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

Meh. My sa15s modeled very will with the small ported. Almost identical to sealed, with a 2-3 db gain. The ns are quite peaky from other things I've read, which is likely the issue you have
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Old 11-11-2012   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Meh. My sa15s modeled very will with the small ported. Almost identical to sealed, with a 2-3 db gain. The ns are quite peaky from other things I've read, which is likely the issue you have
That could be the case. I've cant say I've really come up with anything that fits exactly what I'm looking for. I'd like something that's pretty flat from 28-70. Sealed can do that pretty well but every time I look at the output of a ported sub in comparison it just makes me sick thinking I would spend so much more money on the sealed set-up and would still be 2-3db lower in output. I have about 7-8 cu ft to work with if anyone as ideas. I've entertained ported 12's sealed 18's, single ported 15 or 18, 4th order 12's.
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Old 11-13-2012   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

try a 4th for 15"s tuned around 65hz 1:1 ratio with sealed side .707 qtc see if that would fit also use diff subs then ns they are geared toward tiny ported spl enclosures
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Old 11-13-2012   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by perfect_prefect View Post
try a 4th for 15"s tuned around 65hz 1:1 ratio with sealed side .707 qtc see if that would fit also use diff subs then ns they are geared toward tiny ported spl enclosures
A 1:1 wasn't exactly what I was looking for but a 2:1 give exactly the response I want. Here is a pic where 2 z v.3 15's in a 4th, 4 sealed 2 ported to 65. compared to 2 18" z v3's. Notice the output is almost identical but the sealed 18's will be in a slightly smaller box that's much easer to build.

I only used the NS subs as an example because sundown doesn't post the T/s specs for the 12" z's.

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Old 11-13-2012   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Daily 6th order, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by jcarver1112 View Post
A 1:1 wasn't exactly what I was looking for but a 2:1 give exactly the response I want. Here is a pic where 2 z v.3 15's in a 4th, 4 sealed 2 ported to 65. compared to 2 18" z v3's. Notice the output is almost identical but the sealed 18's will be in a slightly smaller box that's much easer to build.

I only used the NS subs as an example because sundown doesn't post the T/s specs for the 12" z's.

yup it's different for every driver. Kudos for modeling it.
Both of those curves would sound good though (and the one would save you quite a bit of space, if that's important)



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