working on enclosure ideas...NEED input - Realm of Excursion



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Old 04-04-2014   #1 (permalink)
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Default working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

so i am putting together a system for my yukon and bear in mind space is not an issue. i have been playing around with winISD and at first i was almost dead set on building a 4th order bandpass but after trying this and that i am leaning more towards the 6th order bandpass.

my plan is to use 1 kicker solobaric l7 2ohm for the lows and my mids are covered by 2 8 mid drivers 4 6x9s and 4 6.5s. im looking for a clean mixture i didnt like the dropoff of the 4th order but the 6th order was impressing.

any input is appreciated
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Old 04-04-2014   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Did u alread have or already buy your driver for this setup??
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Old 04-04-2014   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

i already have my system 3 amps 10 speakers and 1 sub

i have everything else planned out its just the box design is where im stuck. i have all the room in the world so space is not an issue and i have always been a fan of 4th order bandpass box designs but after using winISD 6th order seems to be the way to go. im just looking for other input or previous experience in this field.
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Old 04-04-2014   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

6th order banpass boxes are a real pain to design because vehicle responce changes the tuning and alot of little things can mess with the design
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Old 04-05-2014   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

well i have been trying to upload a picture of my winisd responses but im too new to post larger than 19.5kbs.

either way i designed 1 4th order and 1 6th order with the same size chambers a 2:1 ratio and kept the small ported side tuned the same. so heres my thought to Build a 6th order and if i dont like the sound and response of it in my truck then ill just seal the large ported side to make it a 4th order. thanks for the input
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Old 04-05-2014   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Quote:
Originally Posted by skwishmonster89 View Post
well i have been trying to upload a picture of my winisd responses but im too new to post larger than 19.5kbs.

either way i designed 1 4th order and 1 6th order with the same size chambers a 2:1 ratio and kept the small ported side tuned the same. so heres my thought to Build a 6th order and if i dont like the sound and response of it in my truck then ill just seal the large ported side to make it a 4th order. thanks for the input
upload the pictures to an online picture dump like photobucket or such and post the IMG link here
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Old 04-05-2014   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

forgot i have photobucket

you can see pink is the 6th order and teal the 4th order both the same enclosure volumes and both front chambers tuned to the same frequency only difference is the rear chamber is ported

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Old 04-05-2014   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

6th looks to have a better bass shelf.....i believe that the flatter the response the better it will be. but i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer so maybe one of the wise ones will chime in


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Old 04-05-2014   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

thank you very much as it stands right now im drawing up plans for the 6th order bandpass and in another week ill start posting build pics of the entire stereo
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Old 04-05-2014   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

post up the designs......there are some here that could probably be of assistance with tips when it comes to designing a 6th.

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Old 04-05-2014   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

I think you've got the volumes arse about face. The rear chambers should be smaller and the front larger to bring the peak down into the lower frequency range. Those response graphs look horrible, the peak should be down near 40hz not 70.
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Old 04-05-2014   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Lol @J
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Old 04-05-2014   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

so would this be a more suitable output


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Old 04-05-2014   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

i didn't even pay attention to the frequency....lol
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Old 04-05-2014   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

don't know if you've see or read this or not but it may contain some helpful info.
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/en...-response.html
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Old 04-05-2014   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

that looks like too much of a peak
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Old 04-05-2014   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

yes i have read the sticky multiple times and i have been playing with winisd with all different speakers and setups just to get used to it.

i dont know much about the science behind the bandpass in general and im reading up online now just trying to learn as much as i can about this. i was originally attracted to the bandpass because it can cover such broad range of frequencies and i would like to achieve a good mixture of the frequencies because i listen to all types of music and i want a great quality setup with a good mixture of spl and sql

so any tips of advice are greatly appreciated
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Old 04-05-2014   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Quote:
Originally Posted by skwishmonster89 View Post
forgot i have photobucket

you can see pink is the 6th order and teal the 4th order both the same enclosure volumes and both front chambers tuned to the same frequency only difference is the rear chamber is ported

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666WMD View Post
I think you've got the volumes arse about face. The rear chambers should be smaller and the front larger to bring the peak down into the lower frequency range. Those response graphs look horrible, the peak should be down near 40hz not 70.

based on what 666 said try making the reversing the volumes and following the advice for tuning. response may look better

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Old 04-05-2014   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

so going by the myriad of articles and threads that ive read on bandpass designs you can design the box and tune your response by using the rear chamber as a high pass filter and the front chamber to control the bandwidth.

also in my search i havent found anyone else who has put a solobaric l7 12 in a bandpass box. so im learning as i go with this concept.

now going by using a 4th order which is what im most likely going to build now after lots of reading searching and playing with winisd i believe i have came up with a great flat response that peaks around 50Hz and covers the frequencies i have been aiming to hit.

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Old 04-05-2014   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

If it was me I'd stay away from the 6th order in my experience they tend to be peeky in the response but then again im sure someone knows alot more about them then I do ..... the above response chart dosnt look to bad also keep in mind there will be some (hard to say how much) cabin gain in the lower frequency range in a 4th order the ported section is your low pass and the sealed section acts as a high pass and helps control the cone and there are lots of little things you can do with volume to help output and sound quality and I do not claim to know them all one thing also to keep in mind is you will need a fairly large port or you will get port noise ..... if your not happy with the response start playing around with volume on both sections and see how it will act and as always when trying something new build - redesign - and build again u ntill you get it where you want it .... hope this helps you some
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Old 04-05-2014   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Also forgot to mention I like to put the ported section on the back of the subwoofer so I can smell the coil if it gets stinky but then again someone might have a good reason not to do that also
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Old 04-05-2014   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

kicker l7 12's will like a 4th better than a 6th order cuz the kickers like sealed boxes...there gts is kinda high....y not just build a good ported box and not have to build this huge enclosure for 1 12?
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Old 04-06-2014   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

What kind of music do you play? 50hz is kinda high for anything really. I suggest starting with 2.5-3 sealed and 5-6 ported at 45hz.
You want a graph that looks like a plateau, not a mountain peak. Ideally it should range between 30 and 50-60hz. 4th orders give better output (db's) over a greater range of frequencies, whereas ported enclosures tend to have a peak around a certain frequency then play lower in db's over a wide range. An example would be a 4th order playing flat between 28 and 45hz with a 6db gain, but sharp roll offs above and below it's range. A ported box might peak to a 6db gain around 35hz but drop to a 3db gain from 38-60hz before rolling off more gently. The roll off at the lower end will usually be sharp too, meaning anything under 30hz can be 12-18db quieter than at 35hz.
Have you included the Linkwitz Transform in the options you tick? Apparently that mimics cabin gain of a vehicle and gives you a better idea of what it will act like.
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Old 04-06-2014   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

The main reason I want to go with this band pass box is because I'm not constricted by space I have a gmc yukon and all the room in the world for a box. I have one woofer and I'm trying to get as much as possible from the one speaker so that's why I have been leaning towards bandpass. Building a quality box is not an issue for me I just need help on tuning and the little tricks to go with it.

Anyways most of the music I will be playing is rock metal and some rap/hip hop rarely, so I want to pick up more of the bass guitar and drums. Either way I'm trying to hit as many notes as possible with this and to have it sound great while doing so.

Also yes I have added linkwitz transform in to act as cabin gain. So should I aim to tune the sealed side lower? For me to reach 34Hz on the sealed it suggest 6.65 cu ft then the ported is around 2 cu ft
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Old 04-06-2014   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: working on enclosure ideas...NEED input

Sealed resonance doesn't play too big a part in the equation, it really just extends the bandwidth I believe. The ported side will get you the loudness you want through volume and tuning will hit the sweet spot where you want it to play.
Set the numbers as I suggested and then change the sealed to see what it affects. Then change the ported and observe again. Then the tuning.
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