On the Technicalities of Clipping - Realm of Excursion



General Car Audio & SPL Discussion B B B B BASS!!!!

Reply
Old 03-14-2007   #1 (permalink)
130 dB
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 179
thechris is still in the green - This is good
Default On the Technicalities of Clipping

firstly, cliping IS bad. If accurate reproduction of audio is the goal, then clipping is bad.

But how bad?

==Users==
As per my other guides, there are a few type of users (4)
SPL Comp -- maximum peak SPL is all that matters
Street/SQL -- willing to accept mild distortion or imbalence for more SPL in music. More subjective then pure SPL Comp users.
SQ -- what sounds best to me? willing to accept audio "flaws" if they compliment the music.
HiFi -- pure objective user, music is reproduced exactly placing the artistic side purely on the artist.

==SPL Comp==
Clipping can provide a gain to such users. A fourier analysis of a pure square wave will show that there is 3dB of extra Power compared to a sine wave of equal peak amplitude. What is nice is that 2dB of this is still in the fundamental, while only 1dB of the power is in odd harmonics. ( power in fundamental is (4/pi)^2 for a pure square wave)

1dB of power at these levels is still a lot though! and this is going to run the amp's PSU hot. The ideal amplifier for pure clipped useage would be a class B mosfet amplifer (can connect the PSU directly to the load, like a class D amp, but has neither the output filter nor the switching losses of a class D amp)

Additional post-amplifier filtering could reduce harmonic power. box design may allow acoustically high impedances at the 3rd and 5th harmonics, allowing the box to act as a filter and reduce the real power load on the amplifier.

This user is least likely to complain of equipment failures -- anyone putting 300% rated power to a Speaker knows that it doesn't help the products MTBF! (oh, and any SPL comp user should expect and plan for equipment failures.)

==Street/SQL==
This user only cares about clipping because it may damage equipment. this user also listens to music, which is not as predictable as the pure sine wave.

For this user, clipping is a calculated risk. More clipping means more bass (on average). The loud notes might not get much louder, but softer notes will get louder, making for high SPL.

The downsides is that decay times will be elongated, possibly to the point that notes no longer end before other notes begin. This can be exacrbated by excessive bass boosts and box designs that tend to prevent notes from ending in a short enough time. this is sloppy bass.

(use of temporal-spectal analysis such as continous wavelet or gabor tranforms might help to show this graphically)

MTX has amplifiers with compressive features. compression will allow the user to have higher distortion at moderate distortion, with only a bit more at high volumes. This is a softer form of clipping.

This user is most likely to buy lower quality equipment, or otherwise attempt to overstress equipment on a regular basis. Complaints will arise when damage is done to equipment.

==SQ==
The SQ user is largely ambivilent to clipping. If clipping makes the music better then it is fine. otherwise its not. again, equipment damage is possible and unwanted. but this user will not typically overstress equipment and will only reach clipping due to filtering (EQ/crossover).

==HiFi==
This user despised clipping. And will buy excessively large equipment to prevent it.

Clipping is deceptively difficult to prevent. filtering can cause harmonics to add in less favorable phase relations, resulting in higher peaks than otherwise. passive filters have the advantage in low power applications in that they actually do store energy directly (as opposed to simulating stored energy as with active filters). Passives can allow high transient peaks.

==Contemporary==
Many gain setting guides cater to street users. there is increasingly more emphasis on setting gains based upon -3dB or -6dB tones. At the same time, there is tremendous resitance to bass boosting feautres that the Street or SQ user might desire because they like the sound.

==Conclusion==
Clipping isn't as bad as some say, but will take out equipment and make you look like a pissant to anyone else. Gains can be had, but at a potentially high risk to equipment. further, the street user will often blast music at inappropriate times for whatever reason.

in the end, a small amount of clipping probably won't kill you, but more clipping will eventually ruin the music and you definately run more risk for equipment by overstressing it on a regualat basis.

Knowing this, a user more concerned with SQ or hifi will question DMM gain setting guides, as these do not ensure either flawless or good sound.

Street/SQL users will have to do soul searchind and determine what an acceptable risk is when intentionally allowing clipping.

SPL users will clearly have to determine how much competitive advantage can be had from clipping. +2dB power** is attractive, but other effects can place the equipment at high risk of damage. its a gamble if the equipment can survive.

==Warning==
I am a predominantly SQ user. i may understate the issues with overstressing equipment on a regular basis. while small amounts of occasional clipping is not unexpected, high levels of sustained clipping is not good. clipping can have other adverse effects that have not been listed here that can cause real power losses to become much higher then otherwise. there is a certain art to clipping as well as a gambling nature. my hope is to show some of the benefits to clipping as well as show that clipping is not instantly destructive.

my advice is not to fsck with things that you don't understand or are unwilling to test. if you don't mind buying a new amp/woofer, go ahead and do what you will. some measurements of output currents and such might show you how real load is affected by clipping.

DON'T BE AN IDIOT WHEN SETTING YOUR EQ/GAINS, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES YOU DO BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE THEN YOU PAID FOR FROM YOUR EQUIPMENT!


*street and SQL user are similar, except street users are more accepting distortion and/or will buy cheap equipment.

** that's +2dB over rated power.




discuss.
__________________
it amazes me how many people cannot figure out what a sqare root is (for V = sqrt(P*R) ). i guess i can't run long distances, so nobody's perfect.
thechris is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-15-2007   #2 (permalink)
160 dB
 
almond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 3,533
Rep Power: 308
almond is still in the green - This is good
Default

goodness, i belong to a myriad of those
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excessive Amperage
Dear almond,
You have received an infraction at Realm of Excursion: Forum.
Reason: Product Spamming or Pushing
-------
You have been warned about this. It has nothing to do with you. Like I said, All you are doing is making matters worse for CASEY !
-------
is this who you want to buy an alternator from?? think about it.
almond is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #3 (permalink)
160 dB
 
Saynkuck123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,742
Rep Power: 283
Saynkuck123 is still in the green - This is good
Default

Maybe manufacturers should start incorporating selectable limiters in the amplifier to prevent clipping?
Saynkuck123 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2007   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 273
Rep Power: 0
bandcamp is still in the green - This is good
Default

interesting outlook on clipping.i have yet to set gains by the dmm route as i feel that by ear does fine for me.i did not know about the potential +3 db gain from setting for clipping.but the risk is to high for someone like me that has 2 cars to pay for a second mortgage and three kids to feed and clothe.so guess i am in the street class because i try to find a good deal on midline audio equipment.
bandcamp is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 390
Rep Power: 0
MarsBlackmon is still in the green - This is good
Default

I guess im in the street class
MarsBlackmon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #6 (permalink)
160 dB
 
almond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 3,533
Rep Power: 308
almond is still in the green - This is good
Default

I have slight clipping, but i know that my sub can take it. i don't know how long, but i know it can take it. I blew my na6000d. but i didn't even mention it. i was taking a chance and lost. oops got a new rd 2200.1d. i haven't blown a sub yet. soooooo. we'll see how that works out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excessive Amperage
Dear almond,
You have received an infraction at Realm of Excursion: Forum.
Reason: Product Spamming or Pushing
-------
You have been warned about this. It has nothing to do with you. Like I said, All you are doing is making matters worse for CASEY !
-------
is this who you want to buy an alternator from?? think about it.
almond is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 883
Rep Power: 0
ballin millenia is still in the green - This is good
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayar Kuchenski View Post
Maybe manufacturers should start incorporating selectable limiters in the amplifier to prevent clipping?
i like that idea cuz people wont be blowing stuff up all the time but i doubt companies will do that cuz they love the repeat business
ballin millenia is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #8 (permalink)
160 dB
 
almond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 3,533
Rep Power: 308
almond is still in the green - This is good
Default

not only that, but that would raise the cost of an amp. and peole probably wouln't buy it. even at say $2.00 per amp, will increase the amp buy quite abit do to the volume produced.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excessive Amperage
Dear almond,
You have received an infraction at Realm of Excursion: Forum.
Reason: Product Spamming or Pushing
-------
You have been warned about this. It has nothing to do with you. Like I said, All you are doing is making matters worse for CASEY !
-------
is this who you want to buy an alternator from?? think about it.
almond is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 173
Rep Power: 0
buddykiller is still in the green - This is good
Default

so, how exactly can you tell if you are clipping? i set all my gains by ear using what i call the "distortion" method.
buddykiller is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-15-2007   #10 (permalink)
130 dB
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 179
thechris is still in the green - This is good
Default

responses:
==limiters==
WRT limiters, there are a myriad of possiblities. Compression has been discussed. It has the downside that it generates more distortion at low volume because the compression starts at mid output, as opposed to hard clipping which only becomes audible @ rated power.

compression must be switchable, as it generates distortion and no amp maker will list an amplifier as 500W /w 5% distortion.

"Automatic Gain Control" is another option, but isn't suitable for music with a wide dynamic range, and it also has annoying aquisition times that cause the music to change volume during the song in a noticable manner.

fast transient limiters are another option. such limiters will produce hard clipping, but at less then max output. This limiter has a time delay. This allows peaks to play without issue, but limits power in hard clipping. This style of limiter may produce excessive distortion.

Soft clipping is cheap to implement, AGC is not. and there are others as well.

==Power==
There is a theoretical +3dB power gain of clipping vs a sine wave of equal peak output. only +2dB is in the fundamental. typically at high power levels there is other forms of acoustic limiting that reduce the acoustic gains so that an additional +2dB of power may only add +1dB of maximum SPL.

At the same time, the music is heavility distorted (near 23% THD), and there is a risk to equipment damage. At high listening levels, the human ear will have a hard time detecting the added maximum SPL and within a period of time will adjust to make the sounds seem quieter.

For street users, the gain of +2dB power is not as attractive as the gains of upwards of +10dB average SPL. (the music, on average, is louder, and low SPL notes will receive a larger gain then just +3dB)

Which is a good point in its own right -- short term (single note) power may see only a +3dB power gain, but long term (song) power gains may be near +6dB.

Thus instead of seeing 2x power, the speaker is seeing 4x power (or more). eg, the music normally would have a max power of 500W for a note, and 100W for the song. with heavy clipping, the max power output is 1000W and for maximum clipping, average power could be 1000W as well. (though it would likely be less). in this case, the power during heavy notes only increases +3dB, while the average power over the entire song is up +10dB!

==detection of clipping==
there are a number of ways to detect clipping. an oscilloscope works well for this, as does a spectral analyzer. use of a filter to remove the fundamental will allow precise detection of clipping (as only harmonics remain).
__________________
it amazes me how many people cannot figure out what a sqare root is (for V = sqrt(P*R) ). i guess i can't run long distances, so nobody's perfect.
thechris is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2007   #11 (permalink)
150 dB
 
kurtdirt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hanford, CA
Age: 31
Posts: 1,352
Rep Power: 213
kurtdirt1 is still in the green - This is good
Default

I fall into the category of a street beater. Disturbing the peace when I feel like it!
kurtdirt1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-12-2008   #12 (permalink)
140 dB
 
eagle12s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 796
Rep Power: 189
eagle12s is still in the green - This is good
Default

clipping wha?

What Does Clipping Look Like? CLICKY to find out

-Drew
__________________
150.6db
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: -Drew

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: newB

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
: Noobtastic14
Quote:
I'm an SQ fairy and can't handle deebeez.

eagle12s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2009   #13 (permalink)
130 dB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jackson, TN
Age: 41
Posts: 292
Rep Power: 141
ZeusVI is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

Try out an older nakamichi pa-506. compressor/limiter just on sub channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayar Kuchenski View Post
Maybe manufacturers should start incorporating selectable limiters in the amplifier to prevent clipping?
__________________
Nice paintjob......Wanna race?
ZeusVI is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-20-2009   #14 (permalink)
150 dB
 
Krannyman92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1,227
Rep Power: 201
Krannyman92 is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusVI View Post
Try out an older nakamichi pa-506. compressor/limiter just on sub channels.
not trying to be a dick, but it takes 5 seconds to check that this guy hasnt logged on since february.
__________________
Quote:
Strike a match, collect insurance, and start over...LOL !
Quote:
But I still think everyone should just chill out and let the kid do what he wants to do.

I mean, if it blows something, we already told him...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Then in a couple of weeks he'll come back saying, "OMG!!! Mie stuffz bloo ups!" Then we can all make like Nelson and point and laugh.
Krannyman92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2009   #15 (permalink)
0 dB
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
madsciontist85 is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

Steve Meade has a how to video on you tube explaining the process of using an o-scope. And I believe it has a link to where he got his o-scope at.
madsciontist85 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-24-2009   #16 (permalink)
130 dB
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jackson, TN
Age: 41
Posts: 292
Rep Power: 141
ZeusVI is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

oops?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krannyman92 View Post
not trying to be a dick, but it takes 5 seconds to check that this guy hasnt logged on since february.
__________________
Nice paintjob......Wanna race?
ZeusVI is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2009   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0
weddings is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

i did not know about the potential +3 db gain from setting for clipping.but the risk is to high for someone like me that has 2 cars to pay for a second mortgage and three kids to feed and clothe.
weddings is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2009   #18 (permalink)
0 dB
 
Spacecase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new bern nc
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
Spacecase is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

I guess I'm clipping to hell out of my subs, but my amp sucx boss gt1500d its doing maybe 600-700 to 4 re 10's at 2ohm. It sounds clean but you can tell I have not pushed to sub enough yet I can max out all setting with no distortion I just picked up 4 more 10's going to buid box over xmas and thinking about 2 Hifonics bxi-1210d ne suggestion. I know get better equip but got to get what I can afford.///.lol
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
my daily driver set up:Clarion head-Blaupunkt components doors-Infinity 4x6 plate back- 8 RE 10" low line//150 alt //3D//one yellow top frt two red top bck//
2 Brutus 1610 on 2ohm-tuned to 40htz
/// in daily driver
show set in stang is
2 Audiopipe TXX 10"
fusion power plant 1000d
with all kenwood internals
Spacecase is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2009   #19 (permalink)
160 dB
 
Sicaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Age: 50
Posts: 4,459
Rep Power: 346
Sicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossible
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

for the same price as the 1210d goes for i can do you an mbquart dsc1500.1 does the same or slightly more than a brutus 1610d does 240 shipped price 10$ more for east states. and dont let anyone BS you the hifonics brutus amps do clean rated power all day long.
Sicaudio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2009   #20 (permalink)
0 dB
 
Spacecase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new bern nc
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
Spacecase is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

Thanx for offer sic but I pay cost for what I get just cant go big due to daughter getting ready for college, plus I feel the mb quart THW will not sell it in N.C. so out of my three distrubitors the Hifronics seem the best. Would have liked to put a couple old school us amps on it but afforded them..lol
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
my daily driver set up:Clarion head-Blaupunkt components doors-Infinity 4x6 plate back- 8 RE 10" low line//150 alt //3D//one yellow top frt two red top bck//
2 Brutus 1610 on 2ohm-tuned to 40htz
/// in daily driver
show set in stang is
2 Audiopipe TXX 10"
fusion power plant 1000d
with all kenwood internals
Spacecase is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2009   #21 (permalink)
160 dB
 
Sicaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Age: 50
Posts: 4,459
Rep Power: 346
Sicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossible
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

whats ur price on the 1210d from them?
Sicaudio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2009   #22 (permalink)
0 dB
 
Spacecase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: new bern nc
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
Spacecase is still in the green - This is good
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

Sic the bxi1210d is $215 my cost plus ship but I'm just wholesaler I'm sure with your deal you have store front and dealship rights I just work out of fleamarket with out store I can't get much better deal. My resell of that amp is $325 anyday out here in N.C. TWH list the DSC1000.1 but not the 1500.1 the my cost is 180 plus ship. Is this about your prices to if not let me know could be a bargain chip next time I make order.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
my daily driver set up:Clarion head-Blaupunkt components doors-Infinity 4x6 plate back- 8 RE 10" low line//150 alt //3D//one yellow top frt two red top bck//
2 Brutus 1610 on 2ohm-tuned to 40htz
/// in daily driver
show set in stang is
2 Audiopipe TXX 10"
fusion power plant 1000d
with all kenwood internals
Spacecase is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-01-2009   #23 (permalink)
160 dB
 
Sicaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Age: 50
Posts: 4,459
Rep Power: 346
Sicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossibleSicaudio has the highest rating we can give - To make it this far is  nearly impossible
Default Re: On the Technicalities of Clipping

wow i sell it for 240 shipped lolz but i pay less as well and yeah i pay 5$ more for the 1500 than u do for the 1000 lolz get with me on your prices with wholesale house and we can work something out.
[email protected]
twh and koby are the only 2 distributors in the us that are authorized so you at least get a full factory warranty lolz.
and i can have anything drop shipped straight from the warehouse as well
Sicaudio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Reply

  Realm of Excursion » Car Audio Discussion » General Car Audio & SPL Discussion

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Realm of Excursion forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


» Amps
A/d/s/
Advent
Alphasonik
Alpine
American Bass
ARC Audio
Atomic
Audio Art
Audio Gods
Audiobahn
Audiocontrol
Audiopipe
Audison
Aura
Autotek
Avionixx
Bazooka
Beyma
Blaupunkt
Boss
Boston Acoustics
Bravox
Cadence
Cascade (CAE)
CDT Audio
Cerwin Vega
Clarion
Clif Designs
Concept
Coustic
Critical Mass
Crossfire
Crunch
DB Drive
DC Audio
DC Power
DEI
Denon
Diabolo
Diamond
Digital Designs
Directed
DLS
Dual
DYnamat
Dynaudio
Earthquake
Eclipse
Elemental Designs
ESX
Eton
Farenheit
Fi Car Audio
Focal
Fusion
Genesis
Ground Zero
Hafler
Helix
Hertz
Hifonics
Hushmat
Image Dynamics
Infinity
Interfire
JBL
Jensen
JL Audio
JVC
Kenwood
Kicker
Knu Konceptz
Kole Audio
Kove Audio
Lanzar
Lightning Audio
Linear Power
MA Audio
Magnat
Marantz
Massive Audio
MB Quart
McIntosh
Memphis
Metra
MMATS
Mobile Authority
Morel
MTX
Nakamichi
Niche Audio
O2 Audio
Ohio Generator
Optima
Orion
Oxygen Audio
OZ Audio
PG Audio
Phase Linear
Phoenix Gold
Pioneer
Polk
Power Acoustik
Powerbass
Powermaster
Precision Power
Profile
Pyle
Pyramid
RadioShack
Rainbow
Rampage
RE AUdio
Rockford Fosgate
Scanspeak
Scosche
Seas
Sony
soundstream
Sparkomatic
SPL Dynamics
Stinger
Sundown Audio
Swiss Audio
Targa
TC Sounds
TREO Engineering
TRU
Tsunami
Ultimate
US Acoustics
US Amps
Velodyne
Vifa
Viper
Visonik
Xtant
Zapco
Zed Audio
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Links
Buy car audio
buy & sell car audio stereo equipment. Purchase used amps, subs speakers for sale and buy classified listings for 12 volt amplifier and subwoofer sales forum
Car Audio Forum
Buy car audio, Sell mobile audio, Wholesale 12 volt, automotive community forum, sub sub woofer, speakers, amplifier, amps, car audio forum
DIYMA
diymobileaudio.com is the DIY car audio install forum for automotive quality and spl stereo bass. 12 volt audio installation wholesalers buy amps, subs, double din car audio head unit electronics and ipod blue tooth car alarms at discounted prices
Sound Deadener
Sound deadening, vibration damper, cld tile, damping mat. Anti vibration pads for automotive insualtion damping, CDL mat, sound damping, noise killer, vibration damper sound deadener


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
ABMM Powered by Syrian Medical Society
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.