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Topic Review (Newest First)

04-18-2011 01:02 PM

Boosted77

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Yeah my old one was 75 amps. It never could keep up with the car while the windshield wipers were running and the defrost, lights etc. Weak.

04-18-2011 12:55 PM

isthatblood?

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

^^^least you dont have a 60 amp alt wtf was toyota thinkin

02-03-2011 08:45 AM

Boosted77

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

This is a very cool read. I watched the vid and read through the posts. Fallen you're a smart dude, and who doesn't like hanging around smart people other than "haters". This is kinda like myself running the tempest battery that was denoted as basically a wheel-chair battery. Something that was not designed specifically for car audio but when applied correctly could be very beneficial. This is where great ideas come to fruition and reality. An idea, intelligent discussion, and then on to a workable application. I love this type of stuff.

02-03-2011 05:59 AM

Fallen

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

i never looked much into the 97's because i knew they were different than mine. (gen 1 vs gen 2) ive called just about every HO alt company, and they only one who could do it without any issues was EA. Mechman said they could sometime around November-ish, so if you were looking, id call them.

And fallen, I know an alt is the "cure" for most problems, but as i was saying above, for my car, its a rather big PITA to get an alt for my particular car.

I still want to try it out, just to see how well it would help, with my current charging system.

Yeah, I hear ya. The amount it would help probably wouldn't justify the $240 plus shipping it would end up costing to make a decent bank.

02-03-2011 03:54 AM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkmage1991

just realised you have the same engine as my car(mines a sl not the sc) both 99, it sucks that we dont have a direct fit alt to upgrade to, but i did find out that the 97 uses the same alt but a square plug for the alt, so if we get a plug from a 97 saturn and splice it on we could run a high output alt for a 97 on are 99... i seen the 97's with 140 amp alt's

not great but its better that are 90 amp

02-02-2011 10:36 PM

Darkmage1991

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

humm. i didnt quite think they would discharge that quickly. probably wouldnt work to well for me because i still have my stock alt, which can barely keep up with my current electrical demands.

not great but its better that are 90 amp

02-02-2011 08:11 PM

Fallen

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

humm. i didnt quite think they would discharge that quickly. probably wouldnt work to well for me because i still have my stock alt, which can barely keep up with my current electrical demands.

Yeah. More or less think of them as giant smoothing caps. But in the end, all the power should be coming from the alt. If not even batteries will eventually run out of charge.

You might be better off with a upgraded alt before this.

But basically this just averages the current draw over time. So the big peak draws, and the periods where the amp is just idling are averaged out. So if your alt can supply enough current to keep up with the average draw you should be OK.

Either way, that cap can only store
(1 / 2) * (1000 F) * (11 V) * (11 V) = 60 500 joules

whereas sealed lead acid batteries can store millions of joules. (I think around 2 million is usable in a group 34 yellowtop)

So anyways great for filling in the peaks and dips(reeealllly big peaks with these caps!). But definitely not a battery.
But you probably could start a car with the bank

02-02-2011 06:22 PM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

humm. i didnt quite think they would discharge that quickly. probably wouldnt work to well for me because i still have my stock alt, which can barely keep up with my current electrical demands.

02-02-2011 05:19 AM

Fallen

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

but what if there was 2 banks of 6 in parallel? the main reason i even pointed it out was because my car cannot handle weight at all, so i was looking for something that could replace a heavy lead acid cell.

You would need the 2 banks of 6 series capacitors to come close to the performance of a yellow top.

Even then as the battery discharges, its curve is like this

The cap will look like this

Compared to the battery graph,
((11 V) / (165 A)) - (2.1 milliohms) = 0.0645666667 ohms

(0.0645666667 ohms) * 1000 farads = 64.5666667 seconds

So the battery lasts about 3 minutes without dropping the voltage too much, the cap will last about 1 minute before it drops to 38%...

With the engine off the yellow top(or any lead acid battery) will be superior IMO. But if there is an alternator to keep the cap charged up between peaks, then it would work fine.

Either way the battery is probably still the way to go...but I want to screw around with a super cap. And I'm kinda sick of my AGMs biting the dust after 3 years(I think the caps would last longer, but don't quote me on that).

02-02-2011 05:14 AM

sri3850341

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

but what if there was 2 banks of 6 in parallel?

it appears that would be the case,being as or more efficient than a yt, but when is it cost effective, appears you'll be paying double for the caps as apposed to one yt

02-02-2011 04:30 AM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by profundus-sanus

to clarify..

this means a yellow top could provide current faster

02-02-2011 04:25 AM

profundus-sanus

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by profundus-sanus

amn, forgot the esr would be going up every time you series one.

so 6 in series would be 4.2 milliohms... which a optima yellow top is 2.5 milliohms esr

to clarify..

this means a yellow top could provide current faster

02-02-2011 03:51 AM

sri3850341

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdragonx1186

Thanks for chiming in, Fallen. I was hoping for your insight.

he is a smart s.o.b aint he

02-01-2011 10:22 PM

jonnyv713

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

I dont know, that is why I was asking haha. I really like the idea of these!

02-01-2011 10:04 PM

matt.u

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

id think you would want a good battery bank to go along with them wouldn't you?

02-01-2011 09:24 PM

jonnyv713

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

So, these could be a replacement for huge battery banks? Should I try these? So, I would use a normal battery up front, and run these in place of the battery bank in the rear?

02-01-2011 09:09 PM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Thanks for chiming in, Fallen. I was hoping for your insight.

02-01-2011 08:21 PM

Fallen

You can definitely use these for car audio. Just make sure you have enough in series. I ran some calculations a while back when I was talking to Joe about them.
Anyways the ESR is fairly low compared to most caps, and batteries. They are used in subways, monorails, etc for regenerative breaking, so they need an ESR that is close to a dead short.

Anyways I've been debating on getting some of these, since I'm thinking they would outlast the typical 2-3yrs I'm getting from my AGM batteries. Obviously they aren't a replacement for all batteries in the car, but for the bank in the back they would be good. Just keep in mind they are a cap, not a battery, so they still suffer from being a real ****ty voltage source(since the voltage will depend on current drawn...whereas a good car battery should give you the same voltage for a wide range of currents).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sri3850341

how fast do they recharge?

Assuming 433F and 4.2mR for a bank of 6, they should charge from 0V to 99.9% full in
5 * (4.2 milliohms) * (433 farads) = 9.09300 seconds

A drop from 14.4V to 12.47V(86.6%, 3 time constants) would take

3 * (4.2 milliohms) * (433 farads) = 5.4558 seconds

Assuming the load presented to the cap was a dead short(only resistance is it's ESR.

In actuallity you would need to figure out the current you are drawing, and the voltage as it changes with time. Some differential equations later, and you'd know how long it would last.
Needless to say, it's much less than a battery.
But still, it serves a purpose.

Link for parts:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G17930

Anyways it's 12 for $240.
For me, that's about what a yellowtop is around here.
With 12, do series parallel to get you 1000F safe up to 16V or so.
The ESR would be 2.1mR in this case, which is rivaling the yellow top as well.
But again, these things aren't batteries...
But they sure would do a great job keeping the voltage in the system up even under heavy loads.

02-01-2011 05:46 PM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by sri3850341

how fast do they recharge?

I'm not sure. I'd imagine you could find that info on the mfr website.

02-01-2011 07:40 AM

sri3850341

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

how fast do they recharge?

02-01-2011 04:55 AM

profundus-sanus

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

amn, forgot the esr would be going up every time you series one.

so 6 in series would be 4.2 milliohms... which a optima yellow top is 2.5 milliohms esr

02-01-2011 04:46 AM

profundus-sanus

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

that beaver really took a pounding! lmao

very interesting though. with an esr that low they can supply their amperage very quickly. 7 in series would be an interesting test.

02-01-2011 01:46 AM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfect_prefect

the best part about them is the charge and discharge abilities, they should last alot better than batteries....... now i want some

Well if you have a littlt extra money..try it out!!!!!!!!!!
I wanna know how it goes!

01-31-2011 10:28 PM

blackdragonx1186

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Haha yeah. 1 or 2 farad vs 2600 is a STARK difference.

01-31-2011 08:25 PM

Sicaudio

Re: a custom built cap that can really replace a battery

Ultracaps are a whole new breed of power...

nothing like standard garbage foil caps are by any means

they have been using them for a short time in many industrial apps and the military

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