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Old 01-18-2007   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question passive radiator

anyone have any experience with passive radiator setups? like the idea but never heard or seen them in use.info, links,pics?
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Old 01-18-2007   #2 (permalink)
 
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I wouldn't, low Power and old school.
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Old 01-18-2007   #3 (permalink)
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I wouldn't, low Power and old school.
What are you talking about?

They are the same idea as ported. They are both helmholtz resonators. But instead of tuning the box with port length and width, its tuned by the weight of the mass attached to the cone of the passive radiator

They have just as much output as a ported enclosure with a similar tuning



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Old 01-18-2007   #4 (permalink)
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I wouldn't, low power and old school.


not even close to the case, a pr system behaves almost the same as a ported system, on average you can expect between 0.5 and 1dB less output (very small amount) and you can expect a faster slope after tuning point. The benefits of passives are huge. You can tune a system to any point you want, and you can keep doing it. Once you build a port, you're stuck with the port size and length. With passives you can also get very low tuning points without having to do a tricky design to accommodate a long port, all you have to do is keep adding or taking away mass from the passive.

The acoustic benefits of passives are also huge. You completely eliminate port resonance or pipe resonance which is one of the major reasons people tend to think ported systems sound worse than sealed. The second benefit is you also eliminate air turbulence inside the port. This is also another major reason why ported systems suffer in SQ relative to sealed. The third benefit is you can get a lot more resonator displacement relative to a port using multiple passives with smaller box, therefore you can get lower tuning, with more displacement and more SPL, higher sensitivity, without having to design a huge or awkward box.

Apart from group delay which is not even audible below 80Hz, you can make a passive system sound just like a sealed system with the low end advantage of a ported system but without the ported system's distortions. Apart from horn loaded subwoofers, passive radiator systems are my second favorite.

The hard part is getting good quality passives, and they are pretty expensive. You can spend a few hundred on passives where as a port may only cost you a few dollars. Apart from being misunderstood, the expense makes them not so popular for Car audio.
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Old 01-18-2007   #5 (permalink)
 
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^^ maby a stickey?
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Old 01-18-2007   #6 (permalink)
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thers a vid in the boston acoustics section with iirc a boston acoustics 12 inch passive radiator along with a mtx 9500 12 with 900 rms, the sub barely moves....but the passive radiator is moving an ass load...
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Old 01-18-2007   #7 (permalink)
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can i see a picture of a passive radaitor? very interesting shiezt
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Old 01-18-2007   #8 (permalink)
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links please>? I am ****ty at finding stuff.
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Old 01-18-2007   #9 (permalink)
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so I dont get it. so is a passive radiator a different kind of speaker? it looked like a sick sub, along with the 9500 on top not doing a thing. im confused
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Old 01-18-2007   #10 (permalink)
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a radiator is basically a sub w/out a motor. i'm sure there is more to it, but that's basically what it is.

try searching www.partsexpress.com, they have them.
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Old 01-18-2007   #11 (permalink)
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my bad 10" radiator...15" 9500

https://realmofexcursion.com/videos/B...cs/gtr10.1.wmv
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Old 01-18-2007   #12 (permalink)
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TC Sounds sell some awsome PR, you should check their website out. Also parts express sells some decent ones based on the dayton DVC.



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Old 01-18-2007   #13 (permalink)
 
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i guess it would sound louder.ive had my system get louder wheni had 1 blown sub and 1 working 1 hooked up.it moved alot more air.
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Old 01-18-2007   #14 (permalink)
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so you just slap them in there with the sub, and you can add more weight to the cone of it to change frequency?

this would be my main question. would there be any point in using it when you have the room for whatever?
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Old 01-18-2007   #15 (permalink)
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you can't just slap a radiator & sub together.. it doesn't work like that.
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Old 01-18-2007   #16 (permalink)
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how does it work then?
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Old 01-18-2007   #17 (permalink)
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No doubt, thats like saying you can just throw a port into a sealed box. It will work, but it could sound like ass. You might get lucky and it'll sound good, but thats not the best way to go about it.



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Old 01-18-2007   #18 (permalink)
 
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there are reasons why most manufactures do not use them anymore. When you can use an aeroport, or 3" or larger port, there is no need for a passive radiator. I know, we used them in the 80's. Bass is pretty much 'inactive' in the enclosure, and the passive just makes it 'active' to the ear, outside the enclosure. If you had the simialar style setups, one woofer in a passive radiator setup, same power, and one in a good, simialar sized ported box, the ported enclosure will be louder to the ear, and meter.
Most passives are not made to have the Xmax most drivers do, so in hence, they cannot play the lower frequencies or reproduce like a woofer, or port could.
if you wanna use them, by all means go for it, I suggest otherwse, just port it if you need a peak.

Just want to add, they are awesome , IMHO, for home audio, or when you have a small woofer and small enclosure, as the passive will need to be larger than the driver. There are both pro's and con's to PR systems.
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Old 01-18-2007   #19 (permalink)
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Thats why you buy PR that are meant to be used with high xmax drivers. The parts express ones have decent throw, and the TC sounds ones are even better. The main reason people dont use them is cost, why would you pay $200 for something a $5 pipe can do...

PR are generally used in high SQ systems, where space is at a premium, and the cost isnt a factor.

Link! http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-194



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Old 01-18-2007   #20 (permalink)
 
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PR's can reproduce tones up to 180 degrees out of phase of the woofer. Depending on the frequency generated and the positioning of the passive to that of the active woofer, the frequency response could have small amounts of cancellation,maybe not so good in a SQ setup.
Another inherent problem is the fairly sharp roll off of the PR. The frequencies below the passive radiator's tuning will roll off very rapidly. In addition, the air in the speaker box no longer acts like a spring to control and restore the motion of the PR and especially the woofer below the resonance of the PR. Much like a woofer in a vented enclosure, power handling of the woofer can be limited below the tuning frequency. This, in effect, could damage both the active woofer and the passive radiator. If you use rthem in a smaller powered application (not like most now feel they need 4000 watt amplifiers) they can and sometimes do indeed have their benefits. Something, a more talented installer could attempt.
But I agree Fallen, most would rather buy a 3"-4" port, and play for much cheaper.
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Old 01-19-2007   #21 (permalink)
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Yea, thats true, although the same goes for the output of the port too, if im not mistaken. Anywho, I agree...dont use them with a 4000 watt set up lmao...unless you have enough PRs to safely displace the amount of air the woofers are displacing with that amount of power.



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Old 01-19-2007   #22 (permalink)
 
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thanks for all the feedback,the idea of the pr,s really got me thinkin since its tax time and i allready own two powerbass 12s think ill buy two more hook up 4 15 inch prs one a sub and invest in some serious watts i got the space and its gotta do more then just four subs provided the boxes are designed and built well right? I really like the idea of slammin the hell out of the subs and havin the pr take the abuse even though a 15 inch pr is probably not cheap its gotta be less than a quality sub...? or should i go 18 inch pr or just screw the idea and buy four 18s moneys not that big an issue but crazy spl and somethin a bit diffrent is what would you do
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Old 01-19-2007   #23 (permalink)
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I have a passive radiator on my Klipsch RSW-10. Its a rear firing driver, with a front firing passive radiator. In my opinion, its a useless device. But it makes the sub sound lower, only when the sub is playing low notes. When it plays low notes, you can get maxium excursion on the passive radiator. And I guess it will increase the SQ.
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Old 01-20-2007   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
Thats why you buy PR that are meant to be used with high xmax drivers. The parts express ones have decent throw, and the TC sounds ones are even better. The main reason people dont use them is cost, why would you pay $200 for something a $5 pipe can do...

PR are generally used in high SQ systems, where space is at a premium, and the cost isnt a factor.

Link! http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-194


It really comes down to cost and lack of modeling ability /. expierence, the system is only going to be a dB less than a ported system when done right, but like I said, huge acoustic upside!
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I have a passive radiator on my Klipsch RSW-10. Its a rear firing driver, with a front firing passive radiator. In my opinion, its a useless device. But it makes the sub sound lower, only when the sub is playing low notes. When it plays low notes, you can get maxium excursion on the passive radiator. And I guess it will increase the SQ.

The RSW-10 would really bennift from more radiator area, but since its tuned higher, its not a huge deal

the new RT-12's are tuned at 16Hz and have about 15 to 20dB more output at 20hz over the RSW-15 (I know that sounds like bs, but its true)

above 30Hz the RSW-15 is a few dB louder.
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