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Old 10-29-2011   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

You guys are hugging a little too much. When is the last time you beat some cvr's on the termlab? The hfx is supposed to get louder with less power, so what is your point? I have nothing against hfx or hfi, the cvr just out classes them. It's not even a fair comparison. Kicker may not be the best, but they make higher quality products than Hifonics. Where is the brutus, atlas, and olympus subs at? It's like all they make now is hfx? You cannot find a dual 2ohm brutus sub anywhere. Where are the higher line autotek or quart subs at? Kicker has more to offer and is more serious about Car audio. I've installed hfi's before so I know what they can do. You might as well say the hfx is louder than the new Rockford P2, but it is not! The cvr and the new p2 are on the same level. The hfx is a step down.
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Old 10-29-2011   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

I sell all the brands mentioned... for the $$ you cannot beat a zxi hfx or GPV with anything kicker makes unless you go up from the CVR...the CVR is a damn good sub but far too expensive...it is an entry level sub with mid level performance..an Alpine Type R will rape them all but it also takes double its RMS...and is rated higher anyway..with 3 times the motor...

I have a customer that replaced 2 15" 08 CVR that I installed in a 12cf box in his extended cab truck on an rfd1000 amp for 2 12" GPV in 4.2cf and the same 36hz tuning and while there was not as much flex he gained 1.2 db on less power...only 900 watts of crunch Power vs 1300 real watts of RFD power..and the GPV will play at 25Hz and the CVR wouldn't...they bottomed out...

it is all perception and misconception... I no longer hug any brand... but even I would take an HFX over a CVR any day of the week... I can get 2 HFX for the cost of 1 CVR... cone area wins...( and for the record... the HFX and ZXI will both rape a CVR and have a smaller motor just a bigger VC on the zxi...)
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Old 10-29-2011   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass911 View Post
You guys are hugging a little too much. When is the last time you beat some cvr's on the termlab? The hfx is supposed to get louder with less power, so what is your point? I have nothing against hfx or hfi, the cvr just out classes them. It's not even a fair comparison. Kicker may not be the best, but they make higher quality products than Hifonics. Where is the brutus, atlas, and olympus subs at? It's like all they make now is hfx? You cannot find a dual 2ohm brutus sub anywhere. Where are the higher line autotek or quart subs at? Kicker has more to offer and is more serious about Car audio. I've installed hfi's before so I know what they can do. You might as well say the hfx is louder than the new Rockford P2, but it is not! The cvr and the new p2 are on the same level. The hfx is a step down.
Thats funny because I would never buy a p2 either Maxxsonics is releasing some very nice new lineage at ces...
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Old 10-29-2011   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

And I believe maxxsonics has been reluctant to keep updating their lines like back in the day because of this economy... To much overhead and risk... Hence the reason probably why kicker is dropping their biggest line.
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Old 10-29-2011   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass911 View Post
You guys are hugging a little too much. When is the last time you beat some cvr's on the termlab? The hfx is supposed to get louder with less power, so what is your point? I have nothing against hfx or hfi, the cvr just out classes them. It's not even a fair comparison. Kicker may not be the best, but they make higher quality products than Hifonics. Where is the brutus, atlas, and olympus subs at? It's like all they make now is hfx? You cannot find a dual 2ohm brutus sub anywhere. Where are the higher line autotek or quart subs at? Kicker has more to offer and is more serious about car audio. I've installed hfi's before so I know what they can do. You might as well say the hfx is louder than the new Rockford P2, but it is not! The cvr and the new p2 are on the same level. The hfx is a step down.
um i own some 2005 brutus bxi's FYI .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicaudio View Post
I sell all the brands mentioned... for the $$ you cannot beat a zxi hfx or GPV with anything kicker makes unless you go up from the CVR...the CVR is a damn good sub but far too expensive...it is an entry level sub with mid level performance..an Alpine Type R will rape them all but it also takes double its RMS...and is rated higher anyway..with 3 times the motor...

I have a customer that replaced 2 15" 08 CVR that I installed in a 12cf box in his extended cab truck on an rfd1000 amp for 2 12" GPV in 4.2cf and the same 36hz tuning and while there was not as much flex he gained 1.2 db on less power...only 900 watts of crunch power vs 1300 real watts of RFD power..and the GPV will play at 25Hz and the CVR wouldn't...they bottomed out...

it is all perception and misconception... I no longer hug any brand... but even I would take an HFX over a CVR any day of the week... I can get 2 HFX for the cost of 1 CVR... cone area wins...( and for the record... the HFX and ZXI will both rape a CVR and have a smaller motor just a bigger VC on the zxi...)
long responses today huh sic?
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Old 10-29-2011   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Sorry, I'll pass on Kicker, whatever the got. Except the war horse. I'm less finicky about amps than subs anyway.

But like I always say, keep it crunk even if it is junk. Run 'em til they pop.
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Old 10-29-2011   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicaudio View Post
I sell all the brands mentioned... for the $$ you cannot beat a zxi hfx or GPV with anything kicker makes unless you go up from the CVR...the CVR is a damn good sub but far too expensive...it is an entry level sub with mid level performance..an Alpine Type R will rape them all but it also takes double its RMS...and is rated higher anyway..with 3 times the motor...

I have a customer that replaced 2 15" 08 CVR that I installed in a 12cf box in his extended cab truck on an rfd1000 amp for 2 12" GPV in 4.2cf and the same 36hz tuning and while there was not as much flex he gained 1.2 db on less power...only 900 watts of crunch power vs 1300 real watts of RFD power..and the GPV will play at 25Hz and the CVR wouldn't...they bottomed out...

it is all perception and misconception... I no longer hug any brand... but even I would take an HFX over a CVR any day of the week... I can get 2 HFX for the cost of 1 CVR... cone area wins...( and for the record... the HFX and ZXI will both rape a CVR and have a smaller motor just a bigger VC on the zxi...)
I know what you sell, and it doesn't change a thing. I'd still take the 15 cvr's over some 12 gvp. Why use 12 cubes instead of 8 or 9. Smaller boxes are usually used to get more spl, so it makes sense. I still don't believe it. You have the nerve to use the word rape, PLEASE! I know over 6 stores around here that sell both brands, and all of them recommend Kicker over Hifonics. You don't think they install them all day just like you? It seems to me most are into quanity over quality in this thread. All I'm hearing is "I can buy this many hfx for the price of this or that sub". Some people only have room for 2 12s, and I'd get the cvr over the hfx. Why sit here and complain about I could of had 4 hfx for the same price? Cone area does not always win. I've seen guys in comps with one sub beating people with 4-8 subs.

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Old 10-29-2011   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

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Originally Posted by SINTORMAN View Post
Thats funny because I would never buy a p2 either Maxxsonics is releasing some very nice new lineage at ces...
You don't have to buy a p2, but the guy that has them will always sound better than you. The new p2 is no joke. If you put 4 hfx against 4 p2, you'll lose every time. Your wallet will win, but no one cares. If they did JL Audio would be out of business. That p2 will handle more abuse, and you'll be smelling hfx coil trying to keep up.
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Old 10-29-2011   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass911 View Post
I know what you sell, and it doesn't change a thing. I'd still take the 15 cvr's over some 12 gvp. Why use 12 cubes instead of 8 or 9. Smaller boxes are usually used to get more spl, so it makes sense. I still don't believe it. You have the nerve to use the word rape, PLEASE! I know over 6 stores around here that sell both brands, and all of them recommend Kicker over Hifonics. You don't think they install them all day just like you? It seems to me most are into quanity over quality in this thread. All I'm hearing is "I can buy this many hfx for the price of this or that sub". Some people only have room for 2 12s, and I'd get the cvr over the hfx. Why sit here and complain about I could of had 4 hfx for the same price? Cone area does not always win. I've seen guys in comps with one sub beating people with 4-8 subs.
Hey buddy, I believe that u have some good points however... I think that a few statements could be viewed in a different light.
Now... U said that u would take 15" CVRs over 12" GPV. Thats not a very fair match up. If my math is correct, it would take atleast 3-12" subs to come close to the surface area of 2-15" subs. Remember: radius x radius x pie= surface diameter {OR r^2 x 3.14=sd}. Sooo... a better comparisson would be atleast 3-12" GPV vs a pair of CVR 15"s. *** If it were me... I'd take the 3-12s GPVs (OR 4 HFX12d4s) over the pair of CVR 15s.... just my opinion***

Also... be very careful about the statements from those 6 dealers in your area. Most Dealers are there for one reason... $$$. So, its not uncommon for a salesman to down play the authenticity of one product to promote the potential sale of another ( & usually higher priced) product. "Hey man dont bother with those __Brand-X___ subs, these CVRs are far superior in quality & performance... and Kicker is more serious about car audio than __Brand-X___ anyway. It may cost u a little more but trust me on this."
Usually... the salesman stands to make more off of you with the CVRs as oppossed to selling u a lower priced Maxxsonics product. Im just saying... take it with a grain of salt.

Also... u are right about getting loud off of one sub. Because of the evolution of car audio that is very possible. But, there again it is possible for a guys with several cheaply price(decent quality) subs to rival TL numbers of a guy with ONE huge expensive sub & gobbs of power... So that argument could go either way.

Peace.
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Old 10-29-2011   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

One more thing... I noticed that u said alot of people in this threa were basically hung up on QUANTITY instead of QUALITY. Well I looked up the specs for the CVR 15s that u mentioned & according to sonix electronics they need between 3ft3 - 5ft3 PORTED and price is @ 140 a piece with power handling @ 500 watts rms. Therefore a pair of em would call for anywhere between 6 to 10ft3 ported equalling 280bucks. So it stands to reason that IF a person only had room for a pair of CVR 15s.... THEN they should have room for 3 12GPVs (which only need a total of 5.25ft3 PORTED) @ 180 bucks OR 4 HFX12d4s (which need a total of 8ft3 PORTED) @ 160 bucks. And like I stated earlier... Id take my chances with the 4 HFXs or 3 GPVs over the 15 CVRs. And by the way... Here is a vid that I often link (hope the link works... U may have to copy/paste it & search it) but its to show people what cheap 12in. subs can do when u build the system right & use your brain. 144db & 146db on the TermLab with the car OFF (12.3 volts) m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=oO-41ueQMpo&fulldescription=1
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Old 10-29-2011   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

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Originally Posted by $ERIOU$OUNDZ View Post
Now... U said that u would take 15" CVRs over 12" GPV. Thats not a very fair match up. If my math is correct, it would take atleast 3-12" subs to come close to the surface area of 2-15" subs. Remember: radius x radius x pie= surface diameter {OR r^2 x 3.14=sd}. Sooo... a better comparisson would be atleast 3-12" GPV vs a pair of CVR 15"s. *** If it were me... I'd take the 3-12s GPVs (OR 4 HFX12d4s) over the pair of CVR 15s.... just my opinion***
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Old 10-29-2011   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

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Originally Posted by $ERIOU$OUNDZ View Post
One more thing... I noticed that u said alot of people in this threa were basically hung up on QUANTITY instead of QUALITY. Well I looked up the specs for the CVR 15s that u mentioned & according to sonix electronics they need between 3ft3 - 5ft3 PORTED and price is @ 140 a piece with power handling @ 500 watts rms. Therefore a pair of em would call for anywhere between 6 to 10ft3 ported equalling 280bucks. So it stands to reason that IF a person only had room for a pair of CVR 15s.... THEN they should have room for 3 12GPVs (which only need a total of 5.25ft3 PORTED) @ 180 bucks OR 4 HFX12d4s (which need a total of 8ft3 PORTED) @ 160 bucks. And like I stated earlier... Id take my chances with the 4 HFXs or 3 GPVs over the 15 CVRs. And by the way... Here is a vid that I often link (hope the link works... U may have to copy/paste it & search it) but its to show people what cheap 12in. subs can do when u build the system right & use your brain. 144db & 146db on the TermLab with the car OFF (12.3 volts) m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=oO-41ueQMpo&fulldescription=1
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Old 10-29-2011   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

^^^ Thanks 666WMD... Im on my mobile so its hard for me to put up links. But thanks for doing it the proper way.

I just want fellow Bass-Heads & Music-Lovers to know that: "U dont necessarily HAVE to have the best of everything to have a decent system... U just have to MAKE the best of what u have"
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Old 10-29-2011   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by $ERIOU$OUNDZ View Post
Hey buddy, I believe that u have some good points however... I think that a few statements could be viewed in a different light.
Now... U said that u would take 15" CVRs over 12" GPV. Thats not a very fair match up. If my math is correct, it would take atleast 3-12" subs to come close to the surface area of 2-15" subs. Remember: radius x radius x pie= surface diameter {OR r^2 x 3.14=sd}. Sooo... a better comparisson would be atleast 3-12" GPV vs a pair of CVR 15"s. *** If it were me... I'd take the 3-12s GPVs (OR 4 HFX12d4s) over the pair of CVR 15s.... just my opinion***

Also... be very careful about the statements from those 6 dealers in your area. Most Dealers are there for one reason... $$$. So, its not uncommon for a salesman to down play the authenticity of one product to promote the potential sale of another ( & usually higher priced) product. "Hey man dont bother with those __Brand-X___ subs, these CVRs are far superior in quality & performance... and Kicker is more serious about car audio than __Brand-X___ anyway. It may cost u a little more but trust me on this."
Usually... the salesman stands to make more off of you with the CVRs as oppossed to selling u a lower priced Maxxsonics product. Im just saying... take it with a grain of salt.

Also... u are right about getting loud off of one sub. Because of the evolution of car audio that is very possible. But, there again it is possible for a guys with several cheaply price(decent quality) subs to rival TL numbers of a guy with ONE huge expensive sub & gobbs of power... So that argument could go either way.

Peace.
No man, I was talking about Sic's example. He said he had 2 12 Gpv's get louder than 2 15 Cvr's. Those salesman are pretty honest. They would recommend Gvp over cvr's, but not hfx over cvr's.
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Old 10-30-2011   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

sorry but a hfx WON'T hold a candle to a cvr.

gpv's are good subs. very efficient.

kickers quality > maxxsonics quality.

thats the extra you're paying for.

hfx's are the cheapest crappiest feeling subs i've ever seen. you can easily bend the basket with your hand. derrick and robbie wrecked one trying to mount it in the sentra. Imo their not worth more than 15-20$ shipped.

if you're on a budget, the gpv's are a solid choice. just remember what you paid and don't push them too hard.
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Old 10-30-2011   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by profundus-sanus View Post
sorry but a hfx WON'T hold a candle to a cvr.

gpv's are good subs. very efficient.

kickers quality > maxxsonics quality.

thats the extra you're paying for.

hfx's are the cheapest crappiest feeling subs i've ever seen. you can easily bend the basket with your hand. derrick and robbie wrecked one trying to mount it in the sentra. Imo their not worth more than 15-20$ shipped.

if you're on a budget, the gpv's are a solid choice. just remember what you paid and don't push them too hard.
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Old 10-30-2011   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by profundus-sanus View Post
sorry but a hfx WON'T hold a candle to a cvr.

gpv's are good subs. very efficient.

kickers quality > maxxsonics quality.

thats the extra you're paying for.

hfx's are the cheapest crappiest feeling subs i've ever seen. you can easily bend the basket with your hand. derrick and robbie wrecked one trying to mount it in the sentra. Imo their not worth more than 15-20$ shipped.

if you're on a budget, the gpv's are a solid choice. just remember what you paid and don't push them too hard.
musta went down from the hfi cause those took a beating from me goin in and out of boxes.
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Old 10-30-2011   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

I was referring to the HFi not the HFX just used to typing the new model... the hfi is rated at 300 and will easily take 600 done right.. several on here have trusted me and are doing it...

CVR is a GOOD sub.. but way overpriced just like the P2 ... may wanna tear that plastic magnet cover off and actually tear 1 down and do a real comparison... youtube prolly has several already...

hands down from real world testing and experience as a dealer for both brands you get way more bang for buck with the zxi gpv and hfi sub than any of the cvr made in the last decade...

even cost aside... treated correctly both should last many years... but who doesnt abuse stuff?...

I have a setup using a single CVR... but it wont hold a candle to my Crunch GPV...I have pics as proof that I am using the CVR if you wish... on 400 watts tuned at 25hz I can ruin it in a second if I am not careful but on 900 watts I can abuse a GPV at 25Hz all day everyday...

like I said.. it is all Misconception and perception...

Stillwater used to make some of the best products around... but that was years ago in a galaxy far, far away...

I have been with Kicker for 25 yrs.. they gave me my 1st chance as a dealer...if they dropped their prices by 25% at LEAST... they would be a better buy for mainstream..

til then I would personally use alot of off brands long b4 I used them again...
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Old 10-30-2011   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass911 View Post
You don't have to buy a p2, but the guy that has them will always sound better than you. The new p2 is no joke. If you put 4 hfx against 4 p2, you'll lose every time. Your wallet will win, but no one cares. If they did JL Audio would be out of business. That p2 will handle more abuse, and you'll be smelling hfx coil trying to keep up.
That is wrong and pure speculation... Please take that elsewhere. The RF P2 is 250 wrms SMH. It sounds like you need to stop listening to your local shops.
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Old 10-31-2011   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by SINTORMAN View Post
That is wrong and pure speculation... Please take that elsewhere. The RF P2 is 250 wrms SMH. It sounds like you need to stop listening to your local shops.
You should have been in the movie Dumb and Dumber because everything you've said is wrong. I don't listen to shops. I pretty much cannot stand shops. I have done over 100 installs in car audio and a few in home audio, so tell me again why I need to listen to a shop? The new P2 is 400 watts, good xmax, and has a pretty big voice coil. Do some research before you run your mouth!
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Old 10-31-2011   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass911 View Post
You should have been in the movie Dumb and Dumber because everything you've said is wrong. I don't listen to shops. I pretty much cannot stand shops. I have done over 100 installs in car audio and a few in home audio, so tell me again why I need to listen to a shop? The new P2 is 400 watts, good xmax, and has a pretty big voice coil. Do some research before you run your mouth!
SMH ... you aren't worth argueing with.
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Old 10-31-2011   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

Having owned almost every american built subwoofer Kicker made (with both Kicker, or Credence logo on it), a pair of 05/06 era CVRs (the one with the grey ribbed cone), four Phoenix gold RSDs, countless other old school and transition subs (MTX, Soundstream, Volcano, Lanzar, Hollywood, Rockford, Bostwick), plenty of garbage subs (Audiobahn, Sagatoga, Pyle, Pyramid), and a 6 HFi's, I have a pretty good knowledge of the products being compared here.

The old school Kickers, still being manufactured under Credence Speakers in KY are great subs. The build quality is top notch, frames are thick and attractive, and they get as loud as anyone would reasonably want. The issue here is you pay US based prices. I still have multiple Bostwick HD Pro 10s that are awesome subs (Comp metal baskets, solo baric motors, traditional surrounds and cones, a TON of performance with plain looks, I run these in my truck to this day).

The CVR's I had were tanks. I had one of them in a big folded vent enclosure running 4 ohm bridged on a Punch 800 tuned high with no subsonic filter. It was crushingly loud for what it was and it never seemed worse for wear. I used to run that sub so long and hard that the amp would thermal itself off, I would let it cool and do it all again.

The Phoenix Gold RSD's were the single best subwoofer deal I've ever found. I paid 40 a woofer. Build quality was exactly on par with the old school Kickers minus some of the aesthetics (stitched surround). They got good and loud and dropped very low in the installs I used them in. Sadly I sold all of these so I never got to enjoy them myself, but I got to listen to them at length.

The Hifonics HFi's are the very close second best deal in subs i've ever found. They feel like a toy, the basket metal is thin, the motor is light and has a silly plastic cover, the rubber surround is over sized for looks more than function I believe. They sound amazingly good for the cheap feel of them. These are not basement subs. They're built to be affordable and they work. Sic makes his money selling Hifonics, but he's not lying when he says they'll take 600rms each if you're responsible. I've been running mine 1 ohm on a BRZ 1200 for a while now and they still surprise me. I own 2 Maxxsonics products now, I'm a careful shopper and so far I feel I've been given good honest advice and got a the best value out there at the time.
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Old 10-31-2011   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

I dont mind how anyone would phrase it... BUT when a 30 dollar sub is able to handle almost double its rms when used responsibly THAT says alot about that sub. I can honestly say that there have been a significant amount of quality issues with Maxxsonics in the past. And I understand alot of people __feel__ (opinion) that Kicker has better quality than Maxxsonics. I cant really argue that (an opinion) BUT I can say that I have also heard a few horror stories of smelly coils, ripped L7 surrounds, & poor sound quality from some kicker products. And if I had to choose between CVRs & GPVs I would take the GPVs (dont flame me, its just my opinion). And if I had to choose between Kicker Comps & HFIs/HFXs I still think that I would take the HFIs/HFXs (once again its simply my opinion). I have seen what the Hfi subs can do...
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

I'm not downing Hifonics. I just had a problem with the OP calling cvr's crappy. I think the hfi/hfx is a great budget sub.
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Old 10-31-2011   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: crunch gpv12

I'll just say they're both crap. Plenty of other budget subs that'll do what the cvr does at a much cheaper cost, same with the hifonics. /thread
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