12" KICKER L7 or DIGITAL DESIGNS 2512 - Realm of Excursion



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Old 06-28-2006   #1 (permalink)
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Default 12" KICKER L7 or DIGITAL DESIGNS 2512

Which sub should get the loudest given its full rms Power and proper box size?
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Old 06-28-2006   #2 (permalink)
 
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Old 06-28-2006   #3 (permalink)
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The L7 will get loudest :!:
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Old 06-28-2006   #4 (permalink)
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I would guess that the L7 will be louder, but the DD sub will certainly last longer and sound better.
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Old 06-28-2006   #5 (permalink)
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And there it is again.

Why do people say the L7 sounds like junk?

Savage I find most of your posts very interesting and useful at that. So i'm just curious if you have had any experience with them or just heard them in someone else's car?

Not intended to be a flame, i'm just curious.
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Old 06-29-2006   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chawk
And there it is again.

Why do people say the L7 sounds like junk?

Savage I find most of your posts very interesting and useful at that. So i'm just curious if you have had any experience with them or just heard them in someone else's car?

Not intended to be a flame, i'm just curious.
they say it becasue they 'read it' somewhere else...the L7 can sound amazing, adn last as long as a DD if done properly, anyone can blow a sub...any sub, yes, even a DD...I know, it happens...more SQ awards have been given to an L7, well over a DD....
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Old 06-29-2006   #7 (permalink)
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Polecat, Which setup do you think should get louder?
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Old 06-29-2006   #8 (permalink)
 
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ported, I'd take the added cone area....
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Old 06-29-2006   #9 (permalink)
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DD will get louder with the right box with the right tuning
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Old 06-29-2006   #10 (permalink)
 
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im guessing all you ppl are just guessing and saying the l7 or 2512 depending on what brand u like more
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Old 06-29-2006   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben210tx
im guessing all you ppl are just guessing and saying the l7 or 2512 depending on what brand u like more
x2 because i can gurantee that most of you haven't had first hand experience with both of these subs. that is why i generally stay out of these "which sub is better threads" if you haven't owned or tested both you can't give an unbiased opinion, you are just going to pick your favorite.
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Old 06-30-2006   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polecat
they say it becasue they 'read it' somewhere else...the L7 can sound amazing, adn last as long as a DD if done properly, anyone can blow a sub...any sub, yes, even a DD...I know, it happens...more SQ awards have been given to an L7, well over a DD....
Haha! Read it somewhere

No - I haven't owned an L7. There's a good reason for that - I've heard dozens of L7 setups and have never heard one that sounds good. Not only that, but they just can't take the kind of Power I'm running. I've also competed in both SQ and SPL for 10 years now, and have seen more than my fair share of L5s and L7s in the lanes.
I've personally heard so many L7s in SQ and SPL comps that I think I can safely say that they are not great at SQ. SPL - they're not too bad. My best friend ran 2-15s off a PPI 2350. They lasted about 2 months, and he went to Stroker. His 2-15" Strokers were more accurate - they didn't go as low as his L7s, but they were louder, stronger and equally as muddy. I have never seen anyone win an SQ event using an L7, and I was still competing in SQ when the square subs came out (and yes, several of the guys who went up against me had L7s - they never came close to winning). I have (no word of a lie) seen people win using Mmats Juggernauts, and yes, even a 15" CV Stroker, so it is possible that you can make an L7 sound good. I just haven't seen one yet.

The fact of the matter is, from the dozens of L7s I've heard first hand, the bass is always muddy, even if in sealed boxes. They go pretty low, and are definitely loud, but tonally they are not in the same universe as an IDQ or any other SQ sub. They are boomy and inaccurate in ported boxes (much like my 18" Stroker); the boominess isn't so bad in smaller boxes and tuned low, but in my friend's case the response did tighten up considerably, but it was still quite boomy going to a smaller box and lower tuning.

I also own a pair of DD9515fs, and one of the guys I compete with runs 2512s in one of his vehicles. The 2512s are quite good at SQ - not that loud, but very accurate (I was actually kinda surprised).

For future reference - I don't open my mouth unless I've had personal owned something or have had enough listen time to back my statements up. If you don't like what I type, I suggest you deal with it rather than make retard statements like "'read it' somewhere". I've been around long enough not to have to read something to make an opinion on it.
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Old 06-30-2006   #13 (permalink)
 
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well since your throwing 'facts' out, let me throw some back at you.
I have been with Kicker, yes, the actual HQ in Oklahoma for 18+ years. The L7 was introduced in 2000, and immediately became a SQ and SPL driver. If you've been competing SQ, and have never seen an L7 win SQ, then your areas of 'expertise' is limited to Canadian SQ. Do a search for many SQ guys, from 2000-2006. Names like Gary Biggs, Mark Eldridge, Cory Himel, Mary Nash, Frank Rougou, Market Dietrich, Rob Rice, etc,etc...
Yes, the same L7 won two major 1st place Championships just at SBN this year...how do I know, because I am the team captain for Team Kicker.
We've been winning SQ since 2000 with them, and laughing at guys that regurgiate that they don't have SQ...I've had many, many converstations with such guys like my dear friends, Gary Biggs and Mark E, and when I tell them what people say, they just laugh...
Of the 4 or 5 last Wolrd titles of Grand Master in SQ for USDACi World Finals, 3 has been Kicker cars, equipped, with you bet, L7's.
If the Jugg or Stroker is better SQ for you, then by all means, you have your say so...but we have just waaaay too much 'proof' that the L7 does, and can have great SQ.
I too have been around it, and maybe longer then you, and I'm in the lanes and have been since late 90's in IASCA, USACi and dbDrag, from SBN to Finals each year, so I don't base unwarranted information. All above is true, facts, and can be proven. But then again, I really don't have to prove myself, or what can be done with them...we'll just take the hardware when we can and accept that as proof.
I do not state they are the best driver over all, I have never said that, but when people say they just do something, I come in with facts.
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Old 06-30-2006   #14 (permalink)
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well,i havent ever had a pair of either subs but i have sat in vehicles that did have them in their setup and yes i do support DD but i also look to see what strengths are out there other than DD,L7's im with savage,they do get loud but like he said they sound "muddy", i prefer tight accurate bass that has authority when you pull up in the lanes or even at a stop light downtown,i have yet to hear setups as loud as DD around my area,its just facts that im throwing out there and if you dont like what i have said i am sorry but truth hurts.
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Old 06-30-2006   #15 (permalink)
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See this is good - I thought it was turning into an e-fight, but it didn't.

Pole - like I said, I haven't heard a decent sounding L7. We tried just about everything to get Dev's L7s to sound good, because he bought them for SQ (and was trying to get to finals). He tried sealed boxes of different sizes, played with tuning in ported boxes, damping, about a dozen different orientations in his cavalier, and just couldn't get them to perform like his old 12W6s. His GFs parent's garage was half full of SQ boxes before he switched to SPL. He just didn't have any luck with them.
My friends and I competed in IASCA in the mid-late 90s in IASCA. I started competing in 1996, and quit SQ after 2000. The judging always seemed to be sketchy, and I was in school at the time so I didn't have the money to wow the judges with crazy fiberglass installs. I had my Car broken into in the fall of 2000, and the thieves stole my 12W6s, quarts, amps, and basically destroyed my entire install. I was in Saskatoon at the time, and Don Hebig convinced me to join the dark side and spend my insurance money on my Stroker, and I've been hooked on SPL ever since.

But like you say, I only competed in Canada. Guys with L7s never won at any of the comps I attended. The guys who won almost always ran JL, ID and Focal for subs. It's hard to get to finals when you're in university for 8 years :
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Old 06-30-2006   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben210tx
im guessing all you ppl are just guessing and saying the l7 or 2512 depending on what brand u like more
i'd say 90% of the posts and replys on this forum are guesses and personal preferences...
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Old 06-30-2006   #17 (permalink)
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I used to run an 05 12" L7...for the money i paid for it, it got pretty loud. I only put 600 watts to it in a box 2.5ft3 @ 33hz. It picked up all the low notes and the sq wasnt bad either.
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Old 06-30-2006   #18 (permalink)
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i had two of them sealed 4 cuft and they sounded good and got nice and tight as well so im with pole on this one
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Old 06-30-2006   #19 (permalink)
 
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I agree, the JL's amke a great SQ woofer. In the late 90's the L7 wasn't out quite yet, but in 2000, several or almost all of the Kicker Competition Group used them with success. Not sure what they did, but Gary was amazing with both isnatllation and fiberglassing, which he built and tweaked most of those systems. We were (Kicker) in Canada from the time I started in '88, but it's grown alot since then. Not 100% sure what Markey and Chad Romano have the L7's installed airspace wise, both won with L7's at SBN this year, so that I'm not 100% sure.
I'd envite you to sit and listen to them if you make it into the states for finals this year, or Cory's van at USACi. I'll be there, and would be glad to meet up with you.
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Old 06-30-2006   #20 (permalink)
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Good it didnt turn into a flame fest.. see i like seeing this on roe.. good conversations that make great reading... Oh and by the way to stay on topic i have only heard the l7's i have never heard the dd's... and l7's i heard were in a prefabb kicker ported box and didnt sound too bad just loud... for the money they are great subs though. (ebay i mean)
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Old 06-30-2006   #21 (permalink)
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What about the L7 as an SPL sub? Everyone is talking about the SQ part of the sub, but how does it compare to others (DD, RE, etc.) in SPL lanes :
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Old 06-30-2006   #22 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz2711
What about the L7 as an SPL sub? Everyone is talking about the SQ part of the sub, but how does it compare to others (DD, RE, etc.) in SPL lanes :
there is alot in the SPL lanes as well, alot in the street apps, street A,B and C and on up in all orgs...
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